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NYC's new rat-killing weapon is wildly successful – for now
- lalaland1125 3y agoThe real solution is quite simple: trash cans The reason why NYC has such a rat epidemic is because they literally throw their trash bags on the street. Which leads to some getting ripped open and leaving food for pests.
- Analemma_ 3y agoNew Yorkers are so precious about this. I've heard pages and pages of excuses why trash containers can't possibly work in New York City, despite literally every other city in the developed world-- including all the others in the United States-- somehow managing to master this arcane technology.
- bugglebeetle 3y agoWe Americans love our Exceptionalism, what can I say!
- rsynnott 3y agoThis is actually somewhat common in city centres for space and access reasons; lots of places do it. Here's one recent attempt at fixing it: https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/dublin/2023/06/21/plastic-bin-bags-to-be-phased-out-in-dublin-city-following-successful-trial-of-bagbins/ https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/dublin/2023/06/21/plastic... (Once you go outside the canals it's wheelie bins, but they are not considered suitable for use in the very centre, for reasons I was never super-clear on)
- crazygringo 3y agoNobody's saying they can't work, they're just saying it's an expensive transformation that involves tradeoffs. Which is in large part because of the way NYC was laid out originally -- no back alleys where garbage could be stored and collected, in order to reduce areas for potential crime. If it were as simple as you imply, it would have been done already. Guess what -- it's actually pretty complex, but containerization is a major focus of the current administration. Nobody's being "precious" about anything -- there's no need to be insulting.
- Ericson2314 3y agoI live in New York. I believe it will work. It's the street-parking minority that is in denial.
- drfuchs 3y agoThe Back Bay section of Boston begs to differ. Even with alleyways between the streets, still no trash cans, just plastic bags (that get chewed through pretty much uniformly).
- WirelessGigabit 3y agoCareful. You might then get javelinas like we do in Phoenix. They'll just kick over the trashcan.
- scientaster2 3y agoThe first time I visited NYC, I was appalled that so many people just casually live in the stink of street trash 24/7. They just don't see it as an issue, strangely
- macintux 3y ago~20 years ago I visited Toronto for a Debian conference in the middle of an outdoor workers strike. I wanted to visit Chinatown, but the heaps of trash bags that hadn't been collected left a stench that I couldn't stomach.
- cmrdporcupine 3y agoI remember that strike :-) Welcome to Ontario :-) Spadina Chinatown has always been notorious for that. Back in the 90s, it was intolerable on garbage days even when there was no strike. Lots of expired seafood in bags out on the sidewalk etc. Nothing like rotting squished crabs baking in hot humid 85f summer smog. It's improved a lot since then.
- ch4s3 3y agoEVERYONE but Bill Deblasio sees it as an issue.
- cantSpellSober 3y agoBill Deblasio is not the mayor of NYC, please update your copypasta
- InCityDreams 3y agoHong Kong in the 60s-70s was a real shithole, NYC sounds a lot nicer. HK cleaned itself up, real nice. Our fave market was called "stinky's".
- hx8 3y agoThe first time I visited NYC was for a job interview. I wanted to live in an urban, walkable city with plenty of cultural and business opportunities. The trash situation was a primary factor in me choosing another city and another job. I get that many many people in NYC don't see this as an issue, or don't see this as a solvable problem. As an outsider it is absolutely disgusting, and forever lowered my opinion of the city.
- notjustanymike 3y agoTrash cans aren't viable because of shortcomings in our infrastructure; we don't have alleyways. Large apartment buildings use dumpsters or basement trash rooms, but you can't exactly cart those out on to the sidewalk. Street side pickup is the only option barring rebuilding the city, and a garbage man isn't picking up an entire trash can. Having a truck pick up the garbage can would also encounter issues with space and time. That's how we landed on our current... well... "solution". Also trash cans aren't foolproof. I've encountered more than a few of the critters digging through our refuse, along with a trash panda once or twice. The bags aren't rat proof either; it's not that they rip, but rather the rats chew through. Complicated problem with a lot of legacy infrastructure debt.
- yostrovs 3y agoYou forgot to mention the union of garbage men that fights against any kind of gains of efficiency. You could have easy-open small dumpsters that are found all over Europe, but that would take work away from a couple guys throwing bags of garbage into the truck.
- cantSpellSober 3y agoAny real-world examples of the NYC sanitation doing this? Or just a generic "unions bad" comment?
- 1over137 3y agoCouldn't you repurpose on-street car parking for trash containers? (I suppose Americans love their cars too much for that...)
- HPsquared 3y agoDon't Americans have Wheelie Bins? https://wikiwaste.org.uk/Wheelie_Bin https://wikiwaste.org.uk/Wheelie_Bin
- cantSpellSober 3y agoIn many cities yes. The current mayor of NYC proposed using trash cans. The proposal was met with open arms and without controversy (just kidding). https://gothamist.com/news/nyc-homeowners-to-be-charged-for-new-official-trash-can https://gothamist.com/news/nyc-homeowners-to-be-charged-for-...
- joecool1029 3y ago> The reason why NYC has such a rat epidemic is because they literally throw their trash bags on the street. NYC has huge underground tunnel networks for subway and other things. The only other city in the US with a comparably large rat problem is Chicago, which also has substantial tunneling. This gives rats a huge place to live. While trash is a contributing factor the huge amount of old tunnels is the main reason it's so hard to control. The city can do all the control it wants in the parks but it isn't going to put much of a dent in the underground systems.
- logicalmonster 3y agoThere's always a cost and a tradeoff. The real question might not be choosing rats or no rats, but choosing between rats or parking. As far as I understand the proposed solution, the containerization proposed would take up somewhere in the range of 100,000 to 200,000 parking spots in NYC.
- djtango 3y agoI walked past a giant trash bin in Singapore one night and there were literally 10+ rats shuffling around inside it and I could hear it shaking and banging. Singapore has no litter problem (but the heat and humidity probably makes the trash more delicious smelling) but the rats can find their way into anything...
- stavros 3y agoThis is very "if it's not perfect, it's not worth doing".
- micromacrofoot 3y agoIt's not really a solution, because even then no one's perfect about using them, but it can help. Rats will chew right through a plastic trash can if they're desperate, and steel dumpsters eventually rust out and create nice little rat doors. Almost ever major city has some level of rat problem, with underground transit and other man-made tunnels I believe the problem is essentially impossible to solve. It's all about management.
- otoburb 3y ago>>[...] a lot of people don't want to give up street parking spots for garbage containers. This is an understatement. A New Yorker with a car that doesn't/can't pay the monthly indoor garage fees will fight tooth and nail for street parking.
- 1over137 3y agoWhich is crazy, because they live in the city with probably the best public transport in their country.
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 3y agoSubstandard, decrepit, and unreliable to the point of necessitating alternative means compared to advanced economies.
- FFP999 3y agoThe real problem is that, for all that, it's still probably the best transit system in the USA. I live in Boston and I would trade the MBTA for the NYC MTA in a heartbeat. (Though to be fair, I would also trade the MBTA for a handful of shiny rocks, that being about equivalent in value.)
- gottorf 3y agoIt really is crazy how bad the T is! I suppose the long tradition of MBTA management seats being used as patronage rewards has not helped.
- FFP999 3y agoI feel a little hopeful about the new GM though (Philip Eng, former head of the Long Island Railroad, for those just joining us). He's actually an engineering and operations guy, as opposed to the old GM Steve Poftak. Poftak's qualifications were an MBA and strict adherence to the Pioneer Foundation's party line. At least the T put the final nail in Charlie Baker's further political ambitions. Hopefully he'll stay at the NCAA, we're just going to have to ask college sports fans to take one for the team (pun intended) there.
- Eumenes 3y agoHow about giant glue traps?
- otoburb 3y agoThe original NYC "Director of Rodent Mitigation" Rat Czar job posting was hilarious, but completely serious. The municipal government took down the job posting once it was filled, but copies are still floating around for posterity[1]. [1] https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11493659/Seeking-leader-rat-pack-NYC-posts-job-listing-Rat-Czar-pays-170-000.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11493659/Seeking-le...
- HPsquared 3y agoMissed an opportunity to be called "rat king"
- cantSpellSober 3y agoThe Daily Mail?! Surely we can do a little better https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-63837306 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-63837306 https://www.npr.org/2023/04/14/1170120247/nyc-rat-czar-kathleen-corradi-eric-adams-mitigation-investment-run-this-city https://www.npr.org/2023/04/14/1170120247/nyc-rat-czar-kathl...
- otoburb 3y agoAs much as it pained me, the only news (sic) outlet that I could find displaying a full copy of the actual text of the job posting in its full glory was The Daily Mail.
- cantSpellSober 3y agohah fair enough :)
- joecool1029 3y agoNeed to lift that ferret ban, let the ferrets work.
- eschulz 3y agoHas the option for rat birth control failed? https://time.com/6264623/rat-birth-control-poison-contrapest/ https://time.com/6264623/rat-birth-control-poison-contrapest...
- FFP999 3y agoThere were massive protests among the rat population, as the overwhelming majority of them turn out to be Republicans.
- micromacrofoot 3y agoIt's only semi-effective, you need to get rats to drink the substance, and it makes them less fertile for about 100 days. Could work along with other methods, but not a silver bullet.
- cpfohl 3y agoI'm confused what dry ice has to do with carbon monoxide...they lost me there...
- peter422 3y agoDry ice sublimates into CO2 which also suffocates the rats as CO2 is heavier than air and will fill up a burrow, taking away all the oxygen.
- cpfohl 3y agoSure, although the article talks about monoxide…thus my confusion. It’s also a much less pleasant way to go: this is an “as I understand it” to be clear; carbon monoxide binds to your hemoglobin better than oxygen, but your bloodstream doesn’t build up carbon dioxide (which is what causes that panicky “I need a breath” feeling). Adding CO2 accelerates that feeling…
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- zinodaur 3y ago> "It's really a cultural issue. It doesn't have to be that way." > "overflowing garbage cans" Hmm something doesn't add up here
- ryanjodonnell 3y agoWhen I see articles like this, I can't stop myself from thinking what if we're the rats in the eyes of AI.
- dafsdsafdsaf 3y ago"A female rat typically births six litters a year consisting of up to 12 rat pups, although 5-10 pups are more common. Rats reach sexual maturity after nine weeks, meaning that a population can swell from two rats to around 1,250 in one year, with the potential to grow exponentially."[1] Unless you kill all of them at once and set up some sort of impossibly perfect rat detection system to kill the ones in every building and trash can, how is killing something like on the order of 10 female-year progeny even news? It's like putting a piece of masking tape over a water main break. You have to reduce their food, their ability to reproduce, etc. https://www.rentokil.com/us/about/blog/all-industries/quickly-can-rats-multiply-facility#:~:text=A%20female%20rat%20typically%20births,the%20potential%20to%20grow%20exponentially.[1] https://www.rentokil.com/us/about/blog/all-industries/quickl...
- lawlessone 3y agoThey reproduce fast. I wonder will some of them eventually evolve some tolerance and/or ability to sense the carbon monoxide, so they can escape before there is too much of it?