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> We designed a test for this theory: we reran the benchmarks without showing the models the instructions to each exercise. Instead, we just told them that they
by boxed 3y ago
> We designed a test for this theory: we reran the benchmarks without showing the models the instructions to each exercise. Instead, we just told them that they were Exercism exercises, and gave them the exercise names and function stubs.
This summarizes all my skepticism agains the AI field. Pretty clear that they aren't solving the problem, they have them memorized.
- mavhc 3y agoLLMs are lossy compression
- stoicfungi 3y agoAll models are, including humain brain.
- ChatGTP 3y agoThe human brain is a model?
- rocgf 3y agoIt models the world around it, so it's fairly similar to what GPT does, especially with the newly-added image capabilities and stuff.
- ChatGTP 3y agoBut the brain itself is not a model.
- FrustratedMonky 3y agoConsciousness itself is a model of the world. Our experience of the world is a model executing. Comparing the latest neuroscience to latest neural networks. They look and behave very similarly.
- famouswaffles 3y ago"They memorized all the problems" is not what was found here and still a wrong overcorrection.
- dartos 3y ago“Gpt-4 has more problems memorized than gpt-4 turbo” was exactly what was found here. That doesn’t mean it’s only able to solve problems in its training set (tho it’s much better at that obviously.)
- boxed 3y agoIf you are shown only the title of a coding problem and the site name where it's from, and you manage to solve it you are showing that you either cheated or knew the answer.
- famouswaffles 3y agoI mean sure, it memorized some of the answers. I'm not denying that. Clearly, it didn't memorize all of them.
- boxed 3y agoWhen people say "oh look how amazing, it can solve programming problems!" when in fact it has only seen the models CHEAT, is an enormous problem. For cases where finding the answer it's perfectly fine, but it's not fine for claims that it can code. There's a huge difference.
- FeepingCreature 3y agoI've seen it code on completely novel tasks, so I'm not sure what you're suggesting here. The model can unquestionably code.
- famouswaffles 3y agoOkay... Funny how forcing it to not CHEAT did not increase apparent ability. It can code and it has memorized some coding questions are not mutually exclusive.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- DecayingOrganic 3y agoMemorization often gets a bad rap as the underachiever's shortcut. However, it's a fundamental component of any learning process! Our ability to reason, solve problems, and innovate is all built upon a foundation of memorized information. In fact, it's precisely the reason humans have thrived for so long; we were able to memorize and pass down knowledge culturally long before the written word, not because we were 100 times smarter than our nearest cousins. Without memorization, be it in our brains or AI algorithms, there's no foundation to build upon for higher reasoning.
- viraptor 3y agoIt's hard to decide for me without seeing the data. Even if you don't know the exact exercise, seeing the title and the function name/parameters is often enough for me to guess what the challenge is. I checked the public questions on exercism and almost all of those (that I spot checked) that contained the function name were extremely obvious. Knowing it's a programming challenge would also improve my guessing chances. For example the function stubs I can find are "value_of_card(<card>)" in exercise "Black Jack", or "generate_seat_letters(<number>)" in exercise "Plane Tickets". I think I could guess those without seeing the rest of the question.
- GaggiX 3y agoSo how can it solve novel problems? Internet does not have all combinations for every possible task with any random programming language, library or constraints. It can even solve problems with non-existing programming languages and libraries if you describe them, if that's just memorization then I don't know what it isn't.
- m3kw9 3y agoFrom a black box point of view and one angle, gpt is a web filter where it will try to find you the exact thing you are looking for but from memory. Vs google you have to distill all the info into what you need
- ren_engineer 3y agoeven if it's not true AI or even an architecture with the potential to become AI, LLMs are already good enough to provide real world value. Obviously "super autocomplete" isn't as sexy as true AI, but still very useful
- drcode 3y agoYou can call it whatever you want, all I know is I used to write programs in lines of code, then blocks of code at a time, spit out by LLMs Using GPT-4 Turbo yesterday, I feel like I'm moving to pages of code at a time now. Taking the ideas in my head and turning them into reality is so easy now
- blovescoffee 3y agoOk but you understand there's a body of literature that shows that LLMs don't "just" memorize
- gloosx 3y ago+100 to that. My biggest scepticism is people actually creating a new problem while thinking they are solving problem. Don't get me wrong, translating natural language ideas into code is fun and all, the truth it is also code, yet in ambiguous language format given to the machine. When did natural language became better for expressing development ideas than code? I know – when you don't know how to code in the first place. Then you will have to bet on all of the ambiguities of the language, cultural and meta-physical which words carry in order to hack your thing together instead of expressing yourself directly and explicitly. Finally what is beautiful about strict code format we are so used to - it is truly the fastest and shortest path to get your thing done, in case you possess the knowledge needed.
- ericrallen 3y agoThat sounds a lot like gatekeeping. These tools will empower folks who aren’t developers to build stuff and maybe learn a bit more about how programming works. They will enable folks who have ideas, but can’t express them, to actually be able to create what they are imagining. That’s awesome. Code isn’t beautiful (except for a few rare exceptions). Creating something with code is.
- gloosx 3y agoI agree it is a great tool for learning, but I don't believe anything more complex or of real use can be made AND maintained with it.
- ericrallen 3y agoI think we’re probably way to early in the AI lifecycle to really form any strongly held beliefs yet. In the 11 months since ChatGPT was released, things have come a long way. Who knows where we’ll be in another 11 months.
- gloosx 3y agoWhat I'm trying to say is that the problem is not approachable this way at all – efficiently generating code by describing what you want, since when you compress what you want into a prompt you lose the details, and in order to restore all of them you will need a much bigger prompt volume than code generated. Because it is code itself which compresses an idea but no idea can compress the code well enough. In another 11 months it will be exactly in the same spot - it will not be able to be more efficient at this task by the nature of it.
- caesil 3y agoIf that's your takeaway from this then you really missed the point. The implication here is that gpt-4 to gpt-4-turbo represents a leap away from memorization and toward better reasoning with a more complete world model.
- nathanfig 3y ago"memorize" implies they can only recite things verbatim and that's ignoring the massive leap in being able to synthesize disjoint "memories" in new ways.
- rldjbpin 3y agoif the benchmark means replicating the experience of taking technical interviews by most people, then this is a spot on approach and serves the potential user right.