6 ms·

Microservices – State of Developer Ecosystem 2022 (JetBrains)

69 points by nullxone 3y ago

cinbun8 3y ago
This is a sub-section of the survey, shown only to people who responded with `Yes` to the `Do you develop microservices?` question. I still don't understand how 19% of respondents picked 'Monolith' as a system design approach. Perhaps they coexist?
- selcuka 3y ago
  The percentages don't add up to 100%. Multiple answers were allowed, so it is possible that one developer works on both monolithic and microservice based projects.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- jen20 3y ago
  Perhaps more people have read and understand the "4+1 architectural view model" paper than I had hitherto realised.
debok 3y ago
I wonder if they are going to do one for 2023?
- ActionHank 3y ago
  I would be eager to see if Rust starts to show up on the list too.
  - whirlwin 3y ago
    Well, if the survey is conducted by JetBrains, I guess it's still far down the list?
    - jen20 3y ago
      Why? They have a (new) Rust IDE, and have had by far the best Rust support in any other IDE for years now.
geodel 3y ago
So 63% of market still to be captured by microservices. I think it is great for boosting profit at cloud vendors, APM vendors, service mesh and so on. If I had made big tech level money, there is no better time to retire and move away from tech for me.
- baz00 3y ago
  I'm taking time out of the industry and doing other stuff. When it finally works out that it's not a viable approach for perhaps 90% of the products out there I'm going to come back and sell exit strategies.
  - beebmam 3y ago
    Do we really want another religious war over microservices vs monoliths? Count me out. I'll adopt each for appropriate use cases.
    - geodel 3y ago
      > Do we really want another religious war over microservices vs monoliths? I guess not since microsevices have won already.
      - willsmith72 3y ago
        From where I stand it's the opposite. 5 years ago microservices were cool, now it's just the banks and telecomms adopting them, while the others realise sometimes they're useful, sometimes a monolith is useful, sometimes a service-oriented architecture (not micro) is useful.
        rozap 3y ago
        Yea, I think they "won" out in the discourse over the last ~5 years, but I'm convinced it was another ZIRP phenomenon that will quickly fade as belts get tightened. When money rains down like mana from the heavens, sure, go ahead and hire half a dozen Ops folks to run your big ball of mud that maxes out at 8 req/s and has a 6 figure monthly AWS spend. I think things are going to swing back the other way, purely because efficiency will more important than it was over the last decade.
jokethrowaway 3y ago
Microservices can be done right - but then they're just Service Oriented Architecture. As a concept, they have been one of the most toxic concepts to be released on the tech world. I remember a conference where some influential person had a slide "if your service doesn't fit on a slide, it's too big". I've seen literal devastation in multiple companies coming from inept technical leaders who drank the microservices koolaid and ended up with 10 services per team, slower services and having to do implement JOINs over network. Those teams not only had to 10x the maintenance work, they also had to solve new problems they wouldn't have with the right service split. Ignore buzzwords and influential speakers who stopped coding in 90s. Split services based on how your people are split across teams. It seems like people are coming back on their senses though, we must be in the plateau phase of the hype cycle.
- gedy 3y ago
  > but then they're just Service Oriented Architecture. This is a disappointment I have, when you mention "normal" services/SOA in past 5-10 years, younger devs assume you mean tiny microservices, and you get caught between monolith vs microservices holy war. Larger domain services are a huge benefit to many shops, but it has felt like a losing battle recently. Like being a centrist between Democrats vs Republicans in the US.
- corpMaverick 3y ago
  > Microservices can be done right - but then they're just Service Oriented Architecture. True. > As a concept, they have been one of the most toxic concepts to be released on the tech world. Sadly, I have to agree. One of the problems is that people assume that Microservices "should be as small as possible" when they should be "Small enough that a small team can own them" > I've seen literal devastation in multiple companies coming from inept technical leaders who drank the microservices koolaid and ended up with 10 services per team, slower services and having to do implement JOINs over network. I just joined this team (7 developers). We have 48 components with 48 repos. Engineers are VERY competent on an individual level but the maintenance burden is huge. It is a configuration management nightmare. We are replacing a super critical system. It is burning out the team. > Ignore buzzwords and influential speakers who stopped coding in 90s. Split services based on how your people are split across teams. I think it is the younger engineers that think this is the only way because that is what they have seen all their careers. (Since 2012 or so). Some corporate Architects are building great careers out of this chaos. Their architecture diagrams look very impressive. I don know if they are aware or not of the damage. > It seems like people are coming back on their senses though, we must be in the plateau phase of the hype cycle. Hopefully. I don want to spend the last five years of my career dealing with this mess.
smrtinsert 3y ago
I'm shocked Java is the most popular language. I thought it was primarily a Node market.
- Fishkins 3y ago
  This is a survey conducted by JetBrains, whose primary product is a Java/Kotlin IDE. They do support other languages, but their audience is almost certainly skewed toward JVM users.
  - dijit 3y ago
    Additional: Some languages really do lean on IDEs. Java and C# are prime among those languages. Writing Java or C# without an IDE is painful. Writing Python or C without and IDE simply lacks creature comforts. So any demographics used for a survey of an IDE company will skew for "IDE focused" languages. All else being equal.
- miroljub 3y ago
  You may be surprised, but in Europe, it's difficult to find a company that doesn't use Java (or .Net). Node does exist, but it's not where the money is.
otherflavors 3y ago
Contrary to what seems to be the rough consensus here, ESB/SOA (+ SOAP + WSDL + XML + ...) the 'correct way to do microservices' is probably something more like Self-Contained Sytems (SCS) https://scs-architecture.org/ https://scs-architecture.org/
Kinrany 3y ago
Are there pieces of microservice architecture that are zero-cost abstractions and can be used in even the smallest side project?

69 points by nullxone 3y ago

This is a sub-section of the survey, shown only to people who responded with `Yes` to the `Do you develop microservices?` question. I still don't understand how 19% of respondents picked 'Monolith' as a system design approach. Perhaps they coexist?

selcuka 3y ago
The percentages don't add up to 100%. Multiple answers were allowed, so it is possible that one developer works on both monolithic and microservice based projects.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
jen20 3y ago
Perhaps more people have read and understand the "4+1 architectural view model" paper than I had hitherto realised.

debok 3y ago

I wonder if they are going to do one for 2023?

ActionHank 3y ago
I would be eager to see if Rust starts to show up on the list too.
- whirlwin 3y ago
  Well, if the survey is conducted by JetBrains, I guess it's still far down the list?
  - jen20 3y ago
    Why? They have a (new) Rust IDE, and have had by far the best Rust support in any other IDE for years now.

geodel 3y ago

So 63% of market still to be captured by microservices. I think it is great for boosting profit at cloud vendors, APM vendors, service mesh and so on. If I had made big tech level money, there is no better time to retire and move away from tech for me.

baz00 3y ago
I'm taking time out of the industry and doing other stuff. When it finally works out that it's not a viable approach for perhaps 90% of the products out there I'm going to come back and sell exit strategies.
- beebmam 3y ago
  Do we really want another religious war over microservices vs monoliths? Count me out. I'll adopt each for appropriate use cases.
  - geodel 3y ago
    > Do we really want another religious war over microservices vs monoliths? I guess not since microsevices have won already.
    - willsmith72 3y ago
      From where I stand it's the opposite. 5 years ago microservices were cool, now it's just the banks and telecomms adopting them, while the others realise sometimes they're useful, sometimes a monolith is useful, sometimes a service-oriented architecture (not micro) is useful.
      - rozap 3y ago
        Yea, I think they "won" out in the discourse over the last ~5 years, but I'm convinced it was another ZIRP phenomenon that will quickly fade as belts get tightened. When money rains down like mana from the heavens, sure, go ahead and hire half a dozen Ops folks to run your big ball of mud that maxes out at 8 req/s and has a 6 figure monthly AWS spend. I think things are going to swing back the other way, purely because efficiency will more important than it was over the last decade.

jokethrowaway 3y ago

Microservices can be done right - but then they're just Service Oriented Architecture. As a concept, they have been one of the most toxic concepts to be released on the tech world. I remember a conference where some influential person had a slide "if your service doesn't fit on a slide, it's too big". I've seen literal devastation in multiple companies coming from inept technical leaders who drank the microservices koolaid and ended up with 10 services per team, slower services and having to do implement JOINs over network. Those teams not only had to 10x the maintenance work, they also had to solve new problems they wouldn't have with the right service split. Ignore buzzwords and influential speakers who stopped coding in 90s. Split services based on how your people are split across teams. It seems like people are coming back on their senses though, we must be in the plateau phase of the hype cycle.

gedy 3y ago
> but then they're just Service Oriented Architecture. This is a disappointment I have, when you mention "normal" services/SOA in past 5-10 years, younger devs assume you mean tiny microservices, and you get caught between monolith vs microservices holy war. Larger domain services are a huge benefit to many shops, but it has felt like a losing battle recently. Like being a centrist between Democrats vs Republicans in the US.
corpMaverick 3y ago
> Microservices can be done right - but then they're just Service Oriented Architecture. True. > As a concept, they have been one of the most toxic concepts to be released on the tech world. Sadly, I have to agree. One of the problems is that people assume that Microservices "should be as small as possible" when they should be "Small enough that a small team can own them" > I've seen literal devastation in multiple companies coming from inept technical leaders who drank the microservices koolaid and ended up with 10 services per team, slower services and having to do implement JOINs over network. I just joined this team (7 developers). We have 48 components with 48 repos. Engineers are VERY competent on an individual level but the maintenance burden is huge. It is a configuration management nightmare. We are replacing a super critical system. It is burning out the team. > Ignore buzzwords and influential speakers who stopped coding in 90s. Split services based on how your people are split across teams. I think it is the younger engineers that think this is the only way because that is what they have seen all their careers. (Since 2012 or so). Some corporate Architects are building great careers out of this chaos. Their architecture diagrams look very impressive. I don know if they are aware or not of the damage. > It seems like people are coming back on their senses though, we must be in the plateau phase of the hype cycle. Hopefully. I don want to spend the last five years of my career dealing with this mess.

smrtinsert 3y ago

I'm shocked Java is the most popular language. I thought it was primarily a Node market.

Fishkins 3y ago
This is a survey conducted by JetBrains, whose primary product is a Java/Kotlin IDE. They do support other languages, but their audience is almost certainly skewed toward JVM users.
- dijit 3y ago
  Additional: Some languages really do lean on IDEs. Java and C# are prime among those languages. Writing Java or C# without an IDE is painful. Writing Python or C without and IDE simply lacks creature comforts. So any demographics used for a survey of an IDE company will skew for "IDE focused" languages. All else being equal.
miroljub 3y ago
You may be surprised, but in Europe, it's difficult to find a company that doesn't use Java (or .Net). Node does exist, but it's not where the money is.

otherflavors 3y ago

Contrary to what seems to be the rough consensus here, ESB/SOA (+ SOAP + WSDL + XML + ...) the 'correct way to do microservices' is probably something more like Self-Contained Sytems (SCS) https://scs-architecture.org/ https://scs-architecture.org/

Kinrany 3y ago

Are there pieces of microservice architecture that are zero-cost abstractions and can be used in even the smallest side project?