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> as much as cyclists hate to hear it, they're the most reckless users of the road on average Citation needed.

FartyMcFarter 3y ago
I speak from personal observation - not trying to write a research paper or an encyclopedia article here. I don't see any other road users engaging in those behaviours on a frequent basis. As an example, it's extremely rare for cars in London to cut red lights, pedestrians sometimes do but they're much slower and therefore easier to see coming. The behaviour of switching back and forth from car/pedestrian rules is not something other road users do here. But cyclists do that extremely frequently, to the point that it seems hard data isn't necessary to form a reasonably certain (but not scientific) conclusion. If cars drove like cyclists, it would be complete chaos. Do you disagree?
- lambda_garden 3y ago
  Yes, I disagree. Anecodtally, I see motorists driving whilst using their phone on a daily basis. I rarely see cycling jumping red lights. I also see motorists jumping red lights, but rarely. I frequently see motorists on the wrong side of the road trying to skip traffic queues. But you claim was about recklessness. Poor driving is much, much more reckless than poor cycling, given the kinetic energy involved.
  - FartyMcFarter 3y ago
    > I rarely see cycling jumping red lights. Do you live in London? I find that surprising since I see it literally every time I go the centre (which is quite often).
- tonyedgecombe 3y ago
  >I speak from personal observation Anecdotes aren't data. >As an example, it's extremely rare for cars in London to cut red lights, pedestrians sometimes do but they're much slower and therefore easier to see coming. On the other hand: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/dec/15/cycling-bike-accidents-study https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/dec/15/cycling... https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2019/05/10/cyclists-break-far-fewer-road-rules-than-motorists-finds-new-video-study/#638693ba4bfa https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2019/05/10/cyclists... https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/01/03/study-cyclists-dont-break-traffic-laws-any-more-than-drivers-do https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/01/03/study-cyclists-dont-b...

I speak from personal observation - not trying to write a research paper or an encyclopedia article here. I don't see any other road users engaging in those behaviours on a frequent basis. As an example, it's extremely rare for cars in London to cut red lights, pedestrians sometimes do but they're much slower and therefore easier to see coming. The behaviour of switching back and forth from car/pedestrian rules is not something other road users do here. But cyclists do that extremely frequently, to the point that it seems hard data isn't necessary to form a reasonably certain (but not scientific) conclusion. If cars drove like cyclists, it would be complete chaos. Do you disagree?

lambda_garden 3y ago
Yes, I disagree. Anecodtally, I see motorists driving whilst using their phone on a daily basis. I rarely see cycling jumping red lights. I also see motorists jumping red lights, but rarely. I frequently see motorists on the wrong side of the road trying to skip traffic queues. But you claim was about recklessness. Poor driving is much, much more reckless than poor cycling, given the kinetic energy involved.
- FartyMcFarter 3y ago
  > I rarely see cycling jumping red lights. Do you live in London? I find that surprising since I see it literally every time I go the centre (which is quite often).
tonyedgecombe 3y ago
>I speak from personal observation Anecdotes aren't data. >As an example, it's extremely rare for cars in London to cut red lights, pedestrians sometimes do but they're much slower and therefore easier to see coming. On the other hand: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/dec/15/cycling-bike-accidents-study https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/dec/15/cycling... https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2019/05/10/cyclists-break-far-fewer-road-rules-than-motorists-finds-new-video-study/#638693ba4bfa https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2019/05/10/cyclists... https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/01/03/study-cyclists-dont-break-traffic-laws-any-more-than-drivers-do https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/01/03/study-cyclists-dont-b...