5 ms·

The most remarkable thing in this case, to me, is the extent to which the press colluded with the intelligence officials. The press is supposed to check and bal

The most remarkable thing in this case, to me, is the extent to which the press colluded with the intelligence officials. The press is supposed to check and balance, but in this case they walked hand-in-hand with the agencies. The article seems to conclude that the officials are being punished for talking to the press - well yes, they worked with the press to suppress the story, and successfully. The whistleblower's revelations, obviously very serious and substantiated, have effectively been buried. No one in Denmark knows what this case is about, except that these top officials are being prosecuted for vague reasons, and with an undertone that it is all very unfair and probably a bad thing for Denmark. Frankly, this BBC article probably contains more information than you would have from following the case in Danish media over a couple of years. (edit: Guardian, thanks for the correction)

the-dude 3y ago
I find it remarkable you find this remarkable. Par for the course.
- johnyzee 3y ago
  It's remarkable in Denmark. Arguably shouldn't be, but none the less.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - the-dude 3y ago
    Danish exceptionalism. You've read it here first.
  - emptysongglass 3y ago
    Our country is massively corrupt. This isn't at all surprising.
    - capableweb 3y ago
      It's relative, innit? Compared to Peru where they've gone through something like 10 different presidents in the last decade because of corruption dramas, Denmark doesn't sound too bad.
      - type0 3y ago
        Not relative, just qualitatively different. Visible vs hidden corruption, either way corruption is bad
        capableweb 3y ago
        You think the amount of corruption is the same in every country, the only thing that is different is how visible it is?
Diggsey 3y ago
This is a guardian article, not BBC. Maybe the link was changed?
cinntaile 3y ago
Scandinavian countries have a lot of trust in their institutions so I would expect that to happen there rather than in countries that have little trust in their institutions.
vintermann 3y ago
> The whistleblower's revelations, obviously very serious and substantiated, have effectively been buried. Unless I'm reading this very wrong, the "whistleblower" didn't blow the whistle in public, but rather privately reported that is superiors were talking too much to the press? The people accused are at least big fans of secret deals with foreign intelligence agencies (I never understand how people can claim such a thing is compatible with democracy).
- fyokdrigd 3y ago
  did we read the same article? the complaint was giving too much to the nsa. the press thing is the cover that happened later. you are mixing the two exactly how the comment you replied to said danish media does.
  - vintermann 3y ago
    Whose complaint? The whistleblower's? Then why are they prosecuting the spy chiefs instead of the whistleblower, and for being too friendly to the media rather than for being too friendly to the NSA? Am I wrong that the spy chiefs are super-friendly to the NSA? It's a bit odd if your pretext for persecuting someone is the exact opposite of the thing you actually want to punish them for. Seriously, it's no wonder the media is confused.
vmfunction 3y ago
It is a good idea to read other country's news about another country. It is even better if the countries has some beefs. I'm not saying the info will be totally accurate, but you will get some info that the gov doesn't want the public to know such as this. Sometime they may mention some scandal, but it will be in a limited hang out ways. At this point main stream media are just talking pieces for the government and corporations, not really news.
TacticalCoder 3y ago
[flagged]
- zzleeper 3y ago
  You made me search for 2022-23 studies on HCQ, to see if anything changes. Behold, still fucking useless: https://www.drugs.com/medical-answers/hydroxychloroquine-effective-covid-19-3536024/ https://www.drugs.com/medical-answers/hydroxychloroquine-eff... (one of many meta studies). Where do you get that disinfo??
  - zdragnar 3y ago
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.04.03.23287649v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.04.03.23287649v... It appears to improve mortality, though not necessarily symptom duration. HCQ-AZ treatment was associated with a significantly lower mortality rate than no HCQ-AZ after adjustment for sex, age, period and patient care setting (adjusted OR (aOR) 95% confidence interval (CI) 0.55, 0.45-0.68). The effect was greater among outpatients (71% death protection rate) than among inpatients (45%).
    - userinanother 3y ago
      3rd factor problem. People with parasites are highly likely to die of covid so treat the parasite decrease mortality
      - zdragnar 3y ago
        This was a French study, on French people. So far as I know, France doesn't have a serious human parasite infection problem.
      - notahacker 3y ago
        Different drug (you're referring to Invermectin). Still, I'm not sure there's any reason to trust this latest Didier Raoult paper any more than the meta analysis carried out of numerous papers and studies into AZ/HCQ carried out by institutions that hadn't staked their reputation on it being a cure in March 2020
avgcorrection 3y ago
> The press is supposed to check and balance, but in this case they walked hand-in-hand with the agencies. Please substantiate the first clause without 1. Using the Press as a source 2. Using some aspirational/normative source that tells us nothing about how things work out in practice
- gpvos 3y ago
  "is supposed to" explicitly expresses an aspirational/normative statement. You are confirming and restating what parent said.
  - avgcorrection 3y ago
    People are supposed to be (1) kind, (2) selfless, (3) generous, (4) gracious (5) ... but no one acts surprised in the least (“the most remarkable ... in this case”) when they aren’t. You have to try to be more holistic in your pedantry instead of trying to snipe phrase snippets.
martinohansen 3y ago
> No one in Denmark knows what this case is about, except that these top officials are being prosecuted for vague reasons, and with an undertone that it is all very unfair and probably a bad thing for Denmark. Everybody in Denmark knows what this is about, it’s a badly held secret. In fact the supreme court denied running the case behind closed doors because the secret is considered “publicly known” at this point[1] [1] https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/hoejesteret-sager-mod-hjort-og-findsen-skal-koere-delvist-aabne-doere https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/hoejesteret-sager-mod-hjor...
mrangle 3y ago
> The press is supposed to check and balance There are a lot of civilizational lies. This one is is among the easiest to figure out.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
throwaway4good 3y ago
The press in Denmark is scared - even today. As this story broke, agents from the intelligence services would show up at all major Danish news outlets to explain that they risked the same treatment as Findsen unless they were very careful in their coverage of the story. Findsen was essentially "disappeared" for the first two months. Arrested and detained but not allowed to tell anyone about his arrest or whereabouts.
Tangokat 3y ago
The press did not collude with intelligence officials. The press did exactly what they were supposed to do, they looked for sources where they could find them and reported on the findings. Findsen should not have been speaking to the press a secret source that much is obvious. Imagine the head of the CIA speaking anonymously to CNN about secrets on his own? Unheard of. This public case has damaged national security much more than just having him fired, and there are some threads to politics (he's rumoured to be hated by the head of the department of the prime ministry, Barbera Bertelsen). However the fact that he is "outraged" or anything of this sort is insane. He dodged a prison sentence and should be happy about that. The case against Claus Hjort Frederiksen (confusingly called Frederiksen in the article, which is also the last name of the prime minister, Mette Frederiksen) is absurd. He confirmed the cable agreement with the NSA which was public knowledge since Snowden. Both cases saw vast overreach by the domestic spy agency (PET) in that they used a statute of the law reserved for traitors which is not remotely close to fair in either case. It's worth noting that the Guardian article is over a month old. Since then all charges have been dropped because the procecution claim they cannot procecute unless everything is in secret, which the supreme court has denied.

the-dude 3y ago

I find it remarkable you find this remarkable. Par for the course.

johnyzee 3y ago
It's remarkable in Denmark. Arguably shouldn't be, but none the less.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- the-dude 3y ago
  Danish exceptionalism. You've read it here first.
- emptysongglass 3y ago
  Our country is massively corrupt. This isn't at all surprising.
  - capableweb 3y ago
    It's relative, innit? Compared to Peru where they've gone through something like 10 different presidents in the last decade because of corruption dramas, Denmark doesn't sound too bad.
    - type0 3y ago
      Not relative, just qualitatively different. Visible vs hidden corruption, either way corruption is bad
      - capableweb 3y ago
        You think the amount of corruption is the same in every country, the only thing that is different is how visible it is?

Diggsey 3y ago

This is a guardian article, not BBC. Maybe the link was changed?

cinntaile 3y ago

Scandinavian countries have a lot of trust in their institutions so I would expect that to happen there rather than in countries that have little trust in their institutions.

vintermann 3y ago

> The whistleblower's revelations, obviously very serious and substantiated, have effectively been buried. Unless I'm reading this very wrong, the "whistleblower" didn't blow the whistle in public, but rather privately reported that is superiors were talking too much to the press? The people accused are at least big fans of secret deals with foreign intelligence agencies (I never understand how people can claim such a thing is compatible with democracy).

fyokdrigd 3y ago
did we read the same article? the complaint was giving too much to the nsa. the press thing is the cover that happened later. you are mixing the two exactly how the comment you replied to said danish media does.
- vintermann 3y ago
  Whose complaint? The whistleblower's? Then why are they prosecuting the spy chiefs instead of the whistleblower, and for being too friendly to the media rather than for being too friendly to the NSA? Am I wrong that the spy chiefs are super-friendly to the NSA? It's a bit odd if your pretext for persecuting someone is the exact opposite of the thing you actually want to punish them for. Seriously, it's no wonder the media is confused.

vmfunction 3y ago

It is a good idea to read other country's news about another country. It is even better if the countries has some beefs. I'm not saying the info will be totally accurate, but you will get some info that the gov doesn't want the public to know such as this. Sometime they may mention some scandal, but it will be in a limited hang out ways. At this point main stream media are just talking pieces for the government and corporations, not really news.

TacticalCoder 3y ago

[flagged]

zzleeper 3y ago
You made me search for 2022-23 studies on HCQ, to see if anything changes. Behold, still fucking useless: https://www.drugs.com/medical-answers/hydroxychloroquine-effective-covid-19-3536024/ https://www.drugs.com/medical-answers/hydroxychloroquine-eff... (one of many meta studies). Where do you get that disinfo??
- zdragnar 3y ago
  https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.04.03.23287649v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.04.03.23287649v... It appears to improve mortality, though not necessarily symptom duration. HCQ-AZ treatment was associated with a significantly lower mortality rate than no HCQ-AZ after adjustment for sex, age, period and patient care setting (adjusted OR (aOR) 95% confidence interval (CI) 0.55, 0.45-0.68). The effect was greater among outpatients (71% death protection rate) than among inpatients (45%).
  - userinanother 3y ago
    3rd factor problem. People with parasites are highly likely to die of covid so treat the parasite decrease mortality
    - zdragnar 3y ago
      This was a French study, on French people. So far as I know, France doesn't have a serious human parasite infection problem.
    - notahacker 3y ago
      Different drug (you're referring to Invermectin). Still, I'm not sure there's any reason to trust this latest Didier Raoult paper any more than the meta analysis carried out of numerous papers and studies into AZ/HCQ carried out by institutions that hadn't staked their reputation on it being a cure in March 2020

avgcorrection 3y ago

> The press is supposed to check and balance, but in this case they walked hand-in-hand with the agencies. Please substantiate the first clause without 1. Using the Press as a source 2. Using some aspirational/normative source that tells us nothing about how things work out in practice

gpvos 3y ago
"is supposed to" explicitly expresses an aspirational/normative statement. You are confirming and restating what parent said.
- avgcorrection 3y ago
  People are supposed to be (1) kind, (2) selfless, (3) generous, (4) gracious (5) ... but no one acts surprised in the least (“the most remarkable ... in this case”) when they aren’t. You have to try to be more holistic in your pedantry instead of trying to snipe phrase snippets.

martinohansen 3y ago

> No one in Denmark knows what this case is about, except that these top officials are being prosecuted for vague reasons, and with an undertone that it is all very unfair and probably a bad thing for Denmark. Everybody in Denmark knows what this is about, it’s a badly held secret. In fact the supreme court denied running the case behind closed doors because the secret is considered “publicly known” at this point[1] [1] https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/hoejesteret-sager-mod-hjort-og-findsen-skal-koere-delvist-aabne-doere https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/hoejesteret-sager-mod-hjor...

mrangle 3y ago

> The press is supposed to check and balance There are a lot of civilizational lies. This one is is among the easiest to figure out.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

throwaway4good 3y ago

The press in Denmark is scared - even today. As this story broke, agents from the intelligence services would show up at all major Danish news outlets to explain that they risked the same treatment as Findsen unless they were very careful in their coverage of the story. Findsen was essentially "disappeared" for the first two months. Arrested and detained but not allowed to tell anyone about his arrest or whereabouts.

Tangokat 3y ago

The press did not collude with intelligence officials. The press did exactly what they were supposed to do, they looked for sources where they could find them and reported on the findings. Findsen should not have been speaking to the press a secret source that much is obvious. Imagine the head of the CIA speaking anonymously to CNN about secrets on his own? Unheard of. This public case has damaged national security much more than just having him fired, and there are some threads to politics (he's rumoured to be hated by the head of the department of the prime ministry, Barbera Bertelsen). However the fact that he is "outraged" or anything of this sort is insane. He dodged a prison sentence and should be happy about that. The case against Claus Hjort Frederiksen (confusingly called Frederiksen in the article, which is also the last name of the prime minister, Mette Frederiksen) is absurd. He confirmed the cable agreement with the NSA which was public knowledge since Snowden. Both cases saw vast overreach by the domestic spy agency (PET) in that they used a statute of the law reserved for traitors which is not remotely close to fair in either case. It's worth noting that the Guardian article is over a month old. Since then all charges have been dropped because the procecution claim they cannot procecute unless everything is in secret, which the supreme court has denied.