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Because it's controlled by the state and the state has an agenda that goes against my freedoms. I'm not looking forward to my purchases being declined because

by vasdae 3y ago

Because it's controlled by the state and the state has an agenda that goes against my freedoms. I'm not looking forward to my purchases being declined because I ate too much beef already, travelled too much, or was caught demonstrating next to people the state does not like.

_Algernon_ 3y ago
Yes, currencies are generally controlled by the state. This is nothing new
xinayder 3y ago
Bitcoin is controlled by Blockstream Core which has an agenda that goes against my freedoms. You're just replacing who controls the currency in the end.
- vasdae 3y ago
  You can't effectively control cash. Removing cash is the entire point.
  - adriancr 3y ago
    You can with limits to amount of cash used, how many people make large cash payments anymore? Aslo, try and make a large cash deposit somewhere and see how many questionaires you have to fill in. Control over cash payments us already a reality.
- sMarsIntruder 3y ago
  This is not the first time I read this accusation here. Jerome, is that you?
- olalonde 3y ago
  No one controls Bitcoin. The people who fed you that story are simply trying to pump shitcoins.
markus92 3y ago
And your credit/debit card isn't (indirectly) controlled by the state? I don't see how this would be different from the current status quo, so many places are card only that the state could already control all of this.
- LinuxBender 3y ago
  And your credit/debit card isn't (indirectly) controlled by the state? Not speaking for the person you asked. My cards are not directly controlled by the state however Visa and Mastercard share all the sales with my government that wants to know how many firearms people buy, how much ammunition and how often it is purchased. [1] I honestly do not know what they do with the data as they haven't intervened in any of the tragic events of late. Anyway that is why I stick with cash and avoid buying things online when I can get them locally. No need for Uncle Sam to keep track of my purchases of inflatable sheep and Velcro mittens which I have no doubt have a special category. [1] - https://www.oregonlive.com/business/2022/09/behind-the-decision-by-visa-mastercard-amex-to-categorize-gun-sales.html https://www.oregonlive.com/business/2022/09/behind-the-decis...
adriancr 3y ago
If a state wants to do something to you, it will, just look at russia/china. The way to defeat that is to vote/get involved/move to countries that are free. Right now, your scenario is entirely plausible but is not reality, why? The digital currency just moves power from private entities (visa/mastercard) to governments. Visa/mastercard are actually banning payments already to things like porn and so on, perhaps digital currency will have less moral policing, perhaps it will be anonymous, i havent found any technical details yet
- Dig1t 3y ago
  The key difference between governments and Visa/Mastercard is that the government has the monopoly on violence. They can force you to do things, with guns. Giving them direct control over your day to day spending is a solid step towards authoritarianism.
  - adriancr 3y ago
    > Giving them direct control over your day to day spending is a solid step towards authoritarianism. They already have that control via Visa/Mastercard, banks, limits on max amount of cash for transactions, limits on inter state travel with large amounts of cash, and so on... and the world is not authoritarian in the west. In the east it is, and they still have cash. Voting for wrong people leads to authoritarianism... Or russia invading you and placing their puppets in charge or revolutions...
- akomtu 3y ago
  I'd rephrase the GP's point slightly: the modern states are mutating right now from a sort of giant "octopus" with a few blunt "tentacles" such as police and the military, into a giant "centipede" with millions of thin and far reaching tentacles. The old state had no capacity or ability to micromanage its subjects, e.g. if someone bought weed with cash, the state couldn't even see it, but the new state will try to micromanage and control everyone, because that's the very nature of the state.
lock-the-spock 3y ago
No, the state is what GUARANTEES your freedoms. This entire fiction of freedom without a state is absurd. Without a state there is no clean running water, no energy security, no protection from criminals, no roads, no school teaching your kids to read, ... That said you need a balance, but this total opposition to the state doing anything new to face new problems or offer new solutions is just a naive ideology.

by vasdae 3y ago

_Algernon_ 3y ago

Yes, currencies are generally controlled by the state. This is nothing new

xinayder 3y ago

Bitcoin is controlled by Blockstream Core which has an agenda that goes against my freedoms. You're just replacing who controls the currency in the end.

vasdae 3y ago
You can't effectively control cash. Removing cash is the entire point.
- adriancr 3y ago
  You can with limits to amount of cash used, how many people make large cash payments anymore? Aslo, try and make a large cash deposit somewhere and see how many questionaires you have to fill in. Control over cash payments us already a reality.
sMarsIntruder 3y ago
This is not the first time I read this accusation here. Jerome, is that you?
olalonde 3y ago
No one controls Bitcoin. The people who fed you that story are simply trying to pump shitcoins.

markus92 3y ago

And your credit/debit card isn't (indirectly) controlled by the state? I don't see how this would be different from the current status quo, so many places are card only that the state could already control all of this.

LinuxBender 3y ago
And your credit/debit card isn't (indirectly) controlled by the state? Not speaking for the person you asked. My cards are not directly controlled by the state however Visa and Mastercard share all the sales with my government that wants to know how many firearms people buy, how much ammunition and how often it is purchased. [1] I honestly do not know what they do with the data as they haven't intervened in any of the tragic events of late. Anyway that is why I stick with cash and avoid buying things online when I can get them locally. No need for Uncle Sam to keep track of my purchases of inflatable sheep and Velcro mittens which I have no doubt have a special category. [1] - https://www.oregonlive.com/business/2022/09/behind-the-decision-by-visa-mastercard-amex-to-categorize-gun-sales.html https://www.oregonlive.com/business/2022/09/behind-the-decis...

adriancr 3y ago

If a state wants to do something to you, it will, just look at russia/china. The way to defeat that is to vote/get involved/move to countries that are free. Right now, your scenario is entirely plausible but is not reality, why? The digital currency just moves power from private entities (visa/mastercard) to governments. Visa/mastercard are actually banning payments already to things like porn and so on, perhaps digital currency will have less moral policing, perhaps it will be anonymous, i havent found any technical details yet

Dig1t 3y ago
The key difference between governments and Visa/Mastercard is that the government has the monopoly on violence. They can force you to do things, with guns. Giving them direct control over your day to day spending is a solid step towards authoritarianism.
- adriancr 3y ago
  > Giving them direct control over your day to day spending is a solid step towards authoritarianism. They already have that control via Visa/Mastercard, banks, limits on max amount of cash for transactions, limits on inter state travel with large amounts of cash, and so on... and the world is not authoritarian in the west. In the east it is, and they still have cash. Voting for wrong people leads to authoritarianism... Or russia invading you and placing their puppets in charge or revolutions...
akomtu 3y ago
I'd rephrase the GP's point slightly: the modern states are mutating right now from a sort of giant "octopus" with a few blunt "tentacles" such as police and the military, into a giant "centipede" with millions of thin and far reaching tentacles. The old state had no capacity or ability to micromanage its subjects, e.g. if someone bought weed with cash, the state couldn't even see it, but the new state will try to micromanage and control everyone, because that's the very nature of the state.

lock-the-spock 3y ago

No, the state is what GUARANTEES your freedoms. This entire fiction of freedom without a state is absurd. Without a state there is no clean running water, no energy security, no protection from criminals, no roads, no school teaching your kids to read, ... That said you need a balance, but this total opposition to the state doing anything new to face new problems or offer new solutions is just a naive ideology.