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What "basic behavior" is that? Anonymously video chatting strangers on the internet? Can't you already do that in many Discord servers? Or on dozens of other ap

What "basic behavior" is that? Anonymously video chatting strangers on the internet? Can't you already do that in many Discord servers? Or on dozens of other apps and websites (e.g. Chatroulette)? There clearly isn't anything fundamentally illegal about the practice, or these would all be shut down.

mikeyouse 3y ago
You'll notice that all of those sites have registrations where you have to create an account and affirm that you're over the age of 13 rather than just putting "Don't use this if you're under 13" in tiny print at the bottom of a page. Even Chatroulette has a big popup where you have to affirm you're over 18 and that you agree to their terms and conditions before using the site..
- notimetorelax 3y ago
  What does this accomplish?
  - mikeyouse 3y ago
    A minimal level of protection against lawsuits like the one that just killed Omegle.
    - vintermann 3y ago
      Yes, obviously, but what does it prevent in terms of the outcome we care about, i.e child abuse? We shouldn't just take zealous well-paid lawyers as a fact of nature. If those "defense against lawsuits"-actions actually don't make a difference in terms of reducing child abuse, then we should not let them make a difference in the legal system either.
      - mikeyouse 3y ago
        Another case of not making perfect the enemy of good. Some percentage of children who see a disclaimer saying, "Do not use if you're under 18, click here to confirm you're 18+" and decide not to lie and login -- so as a base level, sites that are dangerous for kids should do that.. the should also do a bunch of other stuff, and it certainly should be mitigating to Omegle's liability that they were doing a bunch of other stuff, but they apparently didn't do a few easy things which may cost them.
        vintermann 3y ago
        > Some percentage of children who see a disclaimer saying, "Do not use if you're under 18, click here to confirm you're 18+" and decide not to lie and login That's assuming the evidence I would like to actually see. Age limits can have a perverse effect on kids, or even young adults, eager to prove to themselves and their peers how "mature" they are. Retail stores and clubs where I live have exploited this for a long time. For instance, there is no government-imposed limits on the age you need to be to buy energy drinks, but the grocery stores have coordinated to institute a 15 year limit. I'm pretty sure they do this simply to increase sales, not over concern for overcaffeinated kids. They also used to have big signs saying "Over 18? PROVE IT!" with a big foaming glass of beer. I'm sure that flew over the head of most adults, but there was nothing about showing ID there.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    it's the difference between an open and closed (unlocked) door. Very small actions can be a surprising deterrent for many people.
- taurath 3y ago
  When has that ever effectively stopped anything? Is it that it seems more careful?
  - mikeyouse 3y ago
    It's like having a "no trespassing" sign and a fence around your pool. You still might be in legal trouble if a kid hops your fence and drowns, but you're vastly better off from a legal perspective than the alternative of not having any barrier whatsoever.
    - sgift 3y ago
      That comparison hinges on having to click "yes, I'm over 13" being more of a fence+sign than a "tiny" text saying you should only use the website if you are 13 or older. I'm sure some lawyer will argue that's the case - since I'm not one: Sounds rather flimsy.
      - mikeyouse 3y ago
        It's certainly the case, especially legally. Here's Chatroulette's login screen: https://imgur.com/a/PV3sT0r https://imgur.com/a/PV3sT0r And from Archive.org, here's how Omegle's looked when the girl who is now suing them joined the site. "Tiny text" isn't an exaggeration. The call to action to start a text chat is a 200x50 button -- the 'don't use if you're under 13' text is 0.75em font: https://imgur.com/a/QpFBJ15 https://imgur.com/a/QpFBJ15 It should be obvious to everyone, not just 'some lawyer' that the former is more of a barrier than the latter. There's also the concept of overt acts in many statutes - lying to a website by clicking a button that says "I'm over 18" when you're not demonstrates that you read the disclaimer and disregarded it, where you can plausibly claim you never saw the copy when it's just legalese on the bottom of the page.
  - JW_00000 3y ago
    I expect at least some kids to be scared off by this. The BBC article above states that Omegle is being mentioned in 50 pedophilia cases in the last 2 years. If 20% of kids would be scared to click "I'm older than 13", that would be 10 cases fewer.
- newswasboring 3y ago
  How does any of this assist in safety? These just sound like things they do to cover there asses.
Lacerda69 3y ago
Discord is not anonymous and chatroulette is next on the choppingblock
- wavemode 3y ago
  I don't recall sharing any details about my personal identity with Discord
dragonwriter 3y ago
> Or on dozens of other apps and websites (e.g. Chatroulette)? Chatroulette, the one most similar to Omegle, like Omegle, was started by a teenager alone (at about the same time), with the additional advantage (from the point of vulnerability to civil liability) of being in Russia. But even so, they very early on faced the same kind of criticism as Omegle, shifted to registration-required and adults-only very early on, had an easier way to report inappropriate content, automatic temporary bans for too many reports too close together, and adopted other mitigations beyond what Omegle has.
- phatskat 3y ago
  > But even so, they very early on faced the same kind of criticism as Omegle, shifted to registration-required and adults-only very early on Over the years, the handful of times I’ve gone on CR, I’ve never seen any form of required registration or age verification beyond maybe an “I’m 18+” checkbox or something.

mikeyouse 3y ago

You'll notice that all of those sites have registrations where you have to create an account and affirm that you're over the age of 13 rather than just putting "Don't use this if you're under 13" in tiny print at the bottom of a page. Even Chatroulette has a big popup where you have to affirm you're over 18 and that you agree to their terms and conditions before using the site..

notimetorelax 3y ago
What does this accomplish?
- mikeyouse 3y ago
  A minimal level of protection against lawsuits like the one that just killed Omegle.
  - vintermann 3y ago
    Yes, obviously, but what does it prevent in terms of the outcome we care about, i.e child abuse? We shouldn't just take zealous well-paid lawyers as a fact of nature. If those "defense against lawsuits"-actions actually don't make a difference in terms of reducing child abuse, then we should not let them make a difference in the legal system either.
    - mikeyouse 3y ago
      Another case of not making perfect the enemy of good. Some percentage of children who see a disclaimer saying, "Do not use if you're under 18, click here to confirm you're 18+" and decide not to lie and login -- so as a base level, sites that are dangerous for kids should do that.. the should also do a bunch of other stuff, and it certainly should be mitigating to Omegle's liability that they were doing a bunch of other stuff, but they apparently didn't do a few easy things which may cost them.
      - vintermann 3y ago
        > Some percentage of children who see a disclaimer saying, "Do not use if you're under 18, click here to confirm you're 18+" and decide not to lie and login That's assuming the evidence I would like to actually see. Age limits can have a perverse effect on kids, or even young adults, eager to prove to themselves and their peers how "mature" they are. Retail stores and clubs where I live have exploited this for a long time. For instance, there is no government-imposed limits on the age you need to be to buy energy drinks, but the grocery stores have coordinated to institute a 15 year limit. I'm pretty sure they do this simply to increase sales, not over concern for overcaffeinated kids. They also used to have big signs saying "Over 18? PROVE IT!" with a big foaming glass of beer. I'm sure that flew over the head of most adults, but there was nothing about showing ID there.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  it's the difference between an open and closed (unlocked) door. Very small actions can be a surprising deterrent for many people.
taurath 3y ago
When has that ever effectively stopped anything? Is it that it seems more careful?
- mikeyouse 3y ago
  It's like having a "no trespassing" sign and a fence around your pool. You still might be in legal trouble if a kid hops your fence and drowns, but you're vastly better off from a legal perspective than the alternative of not having any barrier whatsoever.
  - sgift 3y ago
    That comparison hinges on having to click "yes, I'm over 13" being more of a fence+sign than a "tiny" text saying you should only use the website if you are 13 or older. I'm sure some lawyer will argue that's the case - since I'm not one: Sounds rather flimsy.
    - mikeyouse 3y ago
      It's certainly the case, especially legally. Here's Chatroulette's login screen: https://imgur.com/a/PV3sT0r https://imgur.com/a/PV3sT0r And from Archive.org, here's how Omegle's looked when the girl who is now suing them joined the site. "Tiny text" isn't an exaggeration. The call to action to start a text chat is a 200x50 button -- the 'don't use if you're under 13' text is 0.75em font: https://imgur.com/a/QpFBJ15 https://imgur.com/a/QpFBJ15 It should be obvious to everyone, not just 'some lawyer' that the former is more of a barrier than the latter. There's also the concept of overt acts in many statutes - lying to a website by clicking a button that says "I'm over 18" when you're not demonstrates that you read the disclaimer and disregarded it, where you can plausibly claim you never saw the copy when it's just legalese on the bottom of the page.
- JW_00000 3y ago
  I expect at least some kids to be scared off by this. The BBC article above states that Omegle is being mentioned in 50 pedophilia cases in the last 2 years. If 20% of kids would be scared to click "I'm older than 13", that would be 10 cases fewer.
newswasboring 3y ago
How does any of this assist in safety? These just sound like things they do to cover there asses.

Lacerda69 3y ago

Discord is not anonymous and chatroulette is next on the choppingblock

wavemode 3y ago
I don't recall sharing any details about my personal identity with Discord

dragonwriter 3y ago

> Or on dozens of other apps and websites (e.g. Chatroulette)? Chatroulette, the one most similar to Omegle, like Omegle, was started by a teenager alone (at about the same time), with the additional advantage (from the point of vulnerability to civil liability) of being in Russia. But even so, they very early on faced the same kind of criticism as Omegle, shifted to registration-required and adults-only very early on, had an easier way to report inappropriate content, automatic temporary bans for too many reports too close together, and adopted other mitigations beyond what Omegle has.

phatskat 3y ago
> But even so, they very early on faced the same kind of criticism as Omegle, shifted to registration-required and adults-only very early on Over the years, the handful of times I’ve gone on CR, I’ve never seen any form of required registration or age verification beyond maybe an “I’m 18+” checkbox or something.