6 ms·

I read the article, but I still don't understand how the National Association of Retailers enforce the 5-6% total commission. Does anyone know? The incidence q

by akavi 3y ago

I read the article, but I still don't understand how the National Association of Retailers enforce the 5-6% total commission. Does anyone know? The incidence question (is the fee "paid" by the buyer or seller) is a semantic one, but if the cartel is able to inflate the total fees, that's something else entirely.

x86x87 3y ago
It's mostly due to the fact that in order to list a house or find a house you need to use a system called MLS. In order to use the system you need to be a realtor. It's quite simple actually
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  Technically, you don’t need to use MLS. You can put your house up on Craigslist, Facebook marketplace, make your own website, put a sign on your front lawn, etc. But most people predict they will earn per time they invest in selling by going with MLS, where the home buying audience is largest.
  - x86x87 3y ago
    Technically no. But it's an uphill battle. Technically you can sell your own house without an agent.
- akavi 3y ago
  But what's preventing realtors from defecting and offering their services for a lower rate?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - hiatus 3y ago
    The other agent won't bring clients to you if the cut is too low.
    - yial 3y ago
      This is very true. A home I purchased recently, the sellers had a very new realtor, who was friends with them. She had listed the commissions very low - probably thinking she was doing them a service. I purchased the home without a realtor, and one of the ways I had a much stronger position was because no one else was being shown the property. (As in, realtors weren’t mentioning it to their clients). I had a friend of mine who is known locally in the area as one of the best realtors look at the mls and listing, and that was the take I got from him.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - aabajian 3y ago
      This was part of the evidence used in the case. They had recordings from buyer's agents who called about non-MLS homes. The agents were on-tape saying things like, "I am going to make sure no other agent shows your house." All because the seller refused to pay a buyer's agent commission.
    - gloryjulio 3y ago
      Yep. It's basically a cartel. You can do whatever you want technically. But you instantly lose the the market reach if you don't pay your realtor tax.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - VirusNewbie 3y ago
    Plenty do. I and many friends do RE transactions with agents who are not “realtors”
    - x86x87 3y ago
      That's all good and possible but not quite mainstream yet.
- dlandis 3y ago
  There are a ton of websites that say it’s possible to create an MLS listing for a small fee, for a for sale by owner house.Are you suggesting there is some catch or that that is not actually possible?
  - xnyan 3y ago
    The catch is realtors will not bring people to your house if you don't pay the commission, MLS listed or otherwise.
    - nojvek 3y ago
      With sites like Redfin and Zillow making searching easy. Don’t need realtors as much. Most of my realtors said me to look at some sites and get back to them when I liked something.
  - jjeaff 3y ago
    I did that with my house. But I had to publish on the listing that we would pay a buyer commission otherwise, no one would come. Luckily, another unrepresented person bought it so I didn't have to pay the commission.
- jakderrida 3y ago
  While my mom is a mortgage agent that always had access to MLS (which she shares with me), I'd argue some realtors (my realtor I've known since I was 4) are worth the 5% without MLS. She has like 4 assistants managing everything in the background that are so well-trained that I didn't even need to mention updating my converted Single to a Multi-family because they somehow figured it out and just did it. She also seems to conjure an army of prospective buyers to show up on the day she schedules and twice blew my expectations away. I was just joking that my multi-family was worth over $300k and she got $312k somehow. So there are realtors that are worth the cost, but she's kind of a rare exception to the norm.
  - 2-718-281-828 3y ago
    > an army of prospective buyers to show up on the day that's what i hate about realtors. in germany they will gladly invite a hundred interested people for a flat and by that make searching for an appartment a huge waste of time. it's easier for them and probably a nice ego stroke.
    - jakderrida 3y ago
      My question was always where the hell she finds all these people and always manages to achieve a rather large premium to my somewhat rigorously estimated value based on all the comparables I find on BrightMLS. They're obviously not getting a great deal. All 3 sales were also Philadelphia suburbs, which is not a lucrative market for speculative gentrification. The only major spike in values in the past 25 years was during COVID with like a single massive 80% jump because in a world where pandemics are real, urban market plummeted. But you'd think this army of buyers would see the name and say, "Screw that! I'm not going to Diane's open houses ever again."
      - 2-718-281-828 3y ago
        it's easier than you'd think. all it takes is a market with large demand and desperation.
  - tsycho 3y ago
- slantaclaus 3y ago
  And buyers side commission split is a blank box that you fill in
huitzitziltzin 3y ago
> I still don't understand how the National Association of Retailers enforce the 5-6% total commission. Plaintiffs submitted some recordings in either this or a related case of an agent who said she wouldn’t even bother to show a house that didn’t have a guaranteed commission. The NAR is not so stupid as to have a “you must sign here that you will only show houses with a commission” form. >> the incidence question … is a semantic one Definitely not semantics. This relates to the elasticity of demand and supply in the market. The incidence can be on the buyer OR the seller OR shared. Depends on the good and the demand.
- eviks 3y ago
  Do you have an example of a market where it's not shared?
novaleaf 3y ago
I bought some undeveloped land a few months ago. I started off doing everything myself, but I found numerous instances where the selling agent wouldn't provide documents on the listing unless I had an agent. I ended up getting an agent just for that.
slantaclaus 3y ago
THEY DON’T It’s a huge part of the law that commissions are to be up for negotiation, always. RE agents might forget that but it’s a foundation level principle that there are no set commissions. You could lose your license or at least be fined for even suggesting it to a client

by akavi 3y ago

x86x87 3y ago

It's mostly due to the fact that in order to list a house or find a house you need to use a system called MLS. In order to use the system you need to be a realtor. It's quite simple actually

lotsofpulp 3y ago
Technically, you don’t need to use MLS. You can put your house up on Craigslist, Facebook marketplace, make your own website, put a sign on your front lawn, etc. But most people predict they will earn per time they invest in selling by going with MLS, where the home buying audience is largest.
- x86x87 3y ago
  Technically no. But it's an uphill battle. Technically you can sell your own house without an agent.
akavi 3y ago
But what's preventing realtors from defecting and offering their services for a lower rate?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- hiatus 3y ago
  The other agent won't bring clients to you if the cut is too low.
  - yial 3y ago
    This is very true. A home I purchased recently, the sellers had a very new realtor, who was friends with them. She had listed the commissions very low - probably thinking she was doing them a service. I purchased the home without a realtor, and one of the ways I had a much stronger position was because no one else was being shown the property. (As in, realtors weren’t mentioning it to their clients). I had a friend of mine who is known locally in the area as one of the best realtors look at the mls and listing, and that was the take I got from him.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - aabajian 3y ago
    This was part of the evidence used in the case. They had recordings from buyer's agents who called about non-MLS homes. The agents were on-tape saying things like, "I am going to make sure no other agent shows your house." All because the seller refused to pay a buyer's agent commission.
  - gloryjulio 3y ago
    Yep. It's basically a cartel. You can do whatever you want technically. But you instantly lose the the market reach if you don't pay your realtor tax.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- VirusNewbie 3y ago
  Plenty do. I and many friends do RE transactions with agents who are not “realtors”
  - x86x87 3y ago
    That's all good and possible but not quite mainstream yet.
dlandis 3y ago
There are a ton of websites that say it’s possible to create an MLS listing for a small fee, for a for sale by owner house.Are you suggesting there is some catch or that that is not actually possible?
- xnyan 3y ago
  The catch is realtors will not bring people to your house if you don't pay the commission, MLS listed or otherwise.
  - nojvek 3y ago
    With sites like Redfin and Zillow making searching easy. Don’t need realtors as much. Most of my realtors said me to look at some sites and get back to them when I liked something.
- jjeaff 3y ago
  I did that with my house. But I had to publish on the listing that we would pay a buyer commission otherwise, no one would come. Luckily, another unrepresented person bought it so I didn't have to pay the commission.
jakderrida 3y ago
While my mom is a mortgage agent that always had access to MLS (which she shares with me), I'd argue some realtors (my realtor I've known since I was 4) are worth the 5% without MLS. She has like 4 assistants managing everything in the background that are so well-trained that I didn't even need to mention updating my converted Single to a Multi-family because they somehow figured it out and just did it. She also seems to conjure an army of prospective buyers to show up on the day she schedules and twice blew my expectations away. I was just joking that my multi-family was worth over $300k and she got $312k somehow. So there are realtors that are worth the cost, but she's kind of a rare exception to the norm.
- 2-718-281-828 3y ago
  > an army of prospective buyers to show up on the day that's what i hate about realtors. in germany they will gladly invite a hundred interested people for a flat and by that make searching for an appartment a huge waste of time. it's easier for them and probably a nice ego stroke.
  - jakderrida 3y ago
    My question was always where the hell she finds all these people and always manages to achieve a rather large premium to my somewhat rigorously estimated value based on all the comparables I find on BrightMLS. They're obviously not getting a great deal. All 3 sales were also Philadelphia suburbs, which is not a lucrative market for speculative gentrification. The only major spike in values in the past 25 years was during COVID with like a single massive 80% jump because in a world where pandemics are real, urban market plummeted. But you'd think this army of buyers would see the name and say, "Screw that! I'm not going to Diane's open houses ever again."
    - 2-718-281-828 3y ago
      it's easier than you'd think. all it takes is a market with large demand and desperation.
- tsycho 3y ago
slantaclaus 3y ago
And buyers side commission split is a blank box that you fill in

huitzitziltzin 3y ago

> I still don't understand how the National Association of Retailers enforce the 5-6% total commission. Plaintiffs submitted some recordings in either this or a related case of an agent who said she wouldn’t even bother to show a house that didn’t have a guaranteed commission. The NAR is not so stupid as to have a “you must sign here that you will only show houses with a commission” form. >> the incidence question … is a semantic one Definitely not semantics. This relates to the elasticity of demand and supply in the market. The incidence can be on the buyer OR the seller OR shared. Depends on the good and the demand.

eviks 3y ago
Do you have an example of a market where it's not shared?

novaleaf 3y ago

I bought some undeveloped land a few months ago. I started off doing everything myself, but I found numerous instances where the selling agent wouldn't provide documents on the listing unless I had an agent. I ended up getting an agent just for that.

slantaclaus 3y ago

THEY DON’T It’s a huge part of the law that commissions are to be up for negotiation, always. RE agents might forget that but it’s a foundation level principle that there are no set commissions. You could lose your license or at least be fined for even suggesting it to a client