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If someone is uninterested in publicly discussing a problem that involves public participation & cooperation, they are also unqualified to answer any questions

If someone is uninterested in publicly discussing a problem that involves public participation & cooperation, they are also unqualified to answer any questions about the problem. Man in the arena and all that.

keiferski 3y ago
Sure, on an individual level. But that sounds like a failure at the societal level to me. We shouldn’t want the only people sharing their expertise to be the most comfortable with publicity.
- FredPret 3y ago
  I disagree - it's only when you try to take ideas out of the textbook and put them in the real world where it is relevant to people that you run into the messy details that make or break ideas. If the ideas are about purely intellectual things, that's fine. But if the ideas are about people's lives or actions, or any complex system in the real world, then the idea isn't really fully fleshed out until someone starts to implement it.
  - keiferski 3y ago
    You seem to think that academics just sit in ivory towers and don’t factor in “the real world” to their arguments. That’s…not how it works, it’s just a poor anti-intellectual characterization. Your supposed “real world alternative” is pop-philosophy writers and loud, attention-seeking people on social media influencing what we ought to do about seriously complex issues like abortion.
    - FredPret 3y ago
      No, I’m not comparing Harris to academic philosophers. I’m speaking in general: there is a class of ideas that aren’t worth anything until they are tried. Because you can’t fully “factor in the real world” in an argument - it’s far too surprising and complex. Examples include economic theories, military strategies, business plans, and getting people to do anything differently at all. Making these work requires attention-getting, sales, and mass attention, frequently on social media. Now if someone has a new theory about calculus or the atom, no ordinary person is going to care and no external factors are involved, and that idea stands alone from its implementation.
      - keiferski 3y ago
        I'm not sure how this has anything to do with my comment.
    - rrsmtz 3y ago
      Unlike other professions, academics rarely face consequences for being wrong. A doctor who makes a bad diagnosis risks malpractice, a civil engineer risks their license, and so on. Academics only really need to worry about the perception of their work by other academics, which isn't inherently tied to results (a notable exception is the hard sciences, which are conceptually much closer to industry).

keiferski 3y ago

Sure, on an individual level. But that sounds like a failure at the societal level to me. We shouldn’t want the only people sharing their expertise to be the most comfortable with publicity.

FredPret 3y ago
I disagree - it's only when you try to take ideas out of the textbook and put them in the real world where it is relevant to people that you run into the messy details that make or break ideas. If the ideas are about purely intellectual things, that's fine. But if the ideas are about people's lives or actions, or any complex system in the real world, then the idea isn't really fully fleshed out until someone starts to implement it.
- keiferski 3y ago
  You seem to think that academics just sit in ivory towers and don’t factor in “the real world” to their arguments. That’s…not how it works, it’s just a poor anti-intellectual characterization. Your supposed “real world alternative” is pop-philosophy writers and loud, attention-seeking people on social media influencing what we ought to do about seriously complex issues like abortion.
  - FredPret 3y ago
    No, I’m not comparing Harris to academic philosophers. I’m speaking in general: there is a class of ideas that aren’t worth anything until they are tried. Because you can’t fully “factor in the real world” in an argument - it’s far too surprising and complex. Examples include economic theories, military strategies, business plans, and getting people to do anything differently at all. Making these work requires attention-getting, sales, and mass attention, frequently on social media. Now if someone has a new theory about calculus or the atom, no ordinary person is going to care and no external factors are involved, and that idea stands alone from its implementation.
    - keiferski 3y ago
      I'm not sure how this has anything to do with my comment.
  - rrsmtz 3y ago
    Unlike other professions, academics rarely face consequences for being wrong. A doctor who makes a bad diagnosis risks malpractice, a civil engineer risks their license, and so on. Academics only really need to worry about the perception of their work by other academics, which isn't inherently tied to results (a notable exception is the hard sciences, which are conceptually much closer to industry).