3 ms·

Why isn’t having an “over 18?” checkbox enough to have lawsuits brought by children (at the time or later) thrown out unceremoniously?

fl0id 3y ago
Because that’s not really verification, probably.
lazide 3y ago
Because kids can check checkboxes no problem? And it’s not even a real attempt at verification? Is this a real question? If someone showed up at a bar, would a bouncer accept that?
- adamomada 3y ago
  It’s because the cops can show up and demand ID from everyone inside, they have to make sure everyone has one. In this case, they have no obligation to ensure everyone has ID on their person. Can you sue a bar you used fake ID to get into? My real question wasn’t if there are kids on the system or not, but why are they allowed to sue when they themselves and nobody else have lied about the age verification question?
  - lazide 3y ago
    Yes, kids can and have sued because they got served alcohol while underage - even if they asked for it. The whole premise is as minor they couldn’t understand the consequences, and weren’t fully responsible for their actions. And establishments get shut down all the time for it. [https://ftxidentity.com/blog/abc-laws-if-minor-is-served/ https://ftxidentity.com/blog/abc-laws-if-minor-is-served/] Next question?
    - adamomada 3y ago
      Your link from an ID verification company says “it depends” wrt fake id liability. I suppose there are sane places and crazy places in the world, for a limited time at least
      - lazide 3y ago
        Sure, here’s a lawyers take - https://www.robertnkatz.com/amp/liability-for-selling-alcohol-to-minors.html https://www.robertnkatz.com/amp/liability-for-selling-alcoho...
        adamomada 3y ago
        Even he mentions that the shop is not liable if they ask for ID. Anyway, it’s really twisted my original point your leaning into alcohol laws that do not apply. If I make a service that says nobody named Bob can use it, have a checkbox Not Bob? - how can I get sued by someone named Bob?
        lazide 3y ago
        Only if they ask for ID, check it, and it looks so good no one could tell it was fake. That’s about as far from checkbox in a random website pop up as we can get though, right? In your new example: - is there a regulatory reason that it is illegal for them to serve someone named Bob? Or is there a real risk/harm that people named Bob would suffer that they know about and is predictable? - did they do any of the checks they are legally required to do to prevent someone named Bob from accessing the service and therefore suffering that injury? Or make a good faith effort to not just injure any Bob’s, at a minimum? If they didn’t, then yet a Bob could sue if he managed to get through and get injured. Pretty weird example though.

fl0id 3y ago

Because that’s not really verification, probably.

lazide 3y ago

Because kids can check checkboxes no problem? And it’s not even a real attempt at verification? Is this a real question? If someone showed up at a bar, would a bouncer accept that?

adamomada 3y ago
It’s because the cops can show up and demand ID from everyone inside, they have to make sure everyone has one. In this case, they have no obligation to ensure everyone has ID on their person. Can you sue a bar you used fake ID to get into? My real question wasn’t if there are kids on the system or not, but why are they allowed to sue when they themselves and nobody else have lied about the age verification question?
- lazide 3y ago
  Yes, kids can and have sued because they got served alcohol while underage - even if they asked for it. The whole premise is as minor they couldn’t understand the consequences, and weren’t fully responsible for their actions. And establishments get shut down all the time for it. [https://ftxidentity.com/blog/abc-laws-if-minor-is-served/ https://ftxidentity.com/blog/abc-laws-if-minor-is-served/] Next question?
  - adamomada 3y ago
    Your link from an ID verification company says “it depends” wrt fake id liability. I suppose there are sane places and crazy places in the world, for a limited time at least
    - lazide 3y ago
      Sure, here’s a lawyers take - https://www.robertnkatz.com/amp/liability-for-selling-alcohol-to-minors.html https://www.robertnkatz.com/amp/liability-for-selling-alcoho...
      - adamomada 3y ago
        Even he mentions that the shop is not liable if they ask for ID. Anyway, it’s really twisted my original point your leaning into alcohol laws that do not apply. If I make a service that says nobody named Bob can use it, have a checkbox Not Bob? - how can I get sued by someone named Bob?
        lazide 3y ago
        Only if they ask for ID, check it, and it looks so good no one could tell it was fake. That’s about as far from checkbox in a random website pop up as we can get though, right? In your new example: - is there a regulatory reason that it is illegal for them to serve someone named Bob? Or is there a real risk/harm that people named Bob would suffer that they know about and is predictable? - did they do any of the checks they are legally required to do to prevent someone named Bob from accessing the service and therefore suffering that injury? Or make a good faith effort to not just injure any Bob’s, at a minimum? If they didn’t, then yet a Bob could sue if he managed to get through and get injured. Pretty weird example though.