4 ms·

> optics Didn’t they used to specifically and notably not care about this? See ACLU defense of neo nazi march.

shadowgovt 3y ago
Sure, but then what happened. I suspect the ACLU has refined its opinion on the nature of freedoms. Or the public that funds it has and it realized that it can't do any good if donors pull support because it keeps supporting Nazis. Maybe distinction without a difference.
- ethanbond 3y ago
  > I suspect the ACLU has refined its opinion on the nature of freedoms. Of all the targets of ire for "woke culture" etc., I'm really surprised that ACLU, SPLC and similar aren't getting more heat. They're actually highly consequential in people's daily lives and can clearly be ideologically captured by a rather small group of people, given that the orgs themselves are so small. Much better targets of critique than random Twitter mobs.
  - lazide 3y ago
    It’s mostly because they’re frankly irrelevant anymore (near as I can tell).
fastball 3y ago
Money corrupts all.
Obergruppen 3y ago
The ACLU is not the same organization that it used to be. That neo nazi march they defended was almost 50 years ago. It is doubtful they would take a similar stance today.
- bitcurious 3y ago
  The ACLU of Virginia did defend the rights of white supremacists to organize in Charlottesville in 2017. I believe the resulting violence triggered some aclu soul searching and I’m not sure where the organization landed on defending the free speech of nazis and the like. Speaking for myself, I hope they keep to their principles.
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    > I hope they keep to their principles. Not anymore. The Charlottesville incident was the straw that broke the camel's back [0][1][2]. There was a revolt from donors and plenty of lawyers against their stance during Charlottesville. [0] - https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html [1] - https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/opinion/aclu-first-amendment-trump-charlottesville.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/opinion/aclu-first-amendm... [2] - https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/04/opinion/sunday/free-speech-social-media-violence.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/04/opinion/sunday/free-speec...
    - johnnyanmac 3y ago
      damn, that's rough. It's a shame because yes, the first amendment does include "the right of the people peaceably to assemble" But that's the rub, PEACEABLY. Clearly what happened in Charlottesville violated that and is no longer protected under the constitution. But we can't ever truly predict the actions of an individual in a large group. I'm very torn. I feel like we veer into Minority Report if we start having to predict what assemblies are prone to violation or not.
sdfhioandion 3y ago
They sure did, but they've changed. They helped obtain permits for the "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville, which devolved into a MAGA riot that ended with a white supremacist murdering one protestor and injuring 35 others. Since then the ACLU has become far more squeamish about their clients and has been willing to compromise on their historical principles. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/aclu-johnny-depp-amber-heard-trial/629808/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/aclu-johnn... I think the ACLU is still a good organization, but it's no longer the ACLU. It should be monomaniacal and universally despised.
- Uehreka 3y ago
  > I think the ACLU is still a good organization > It should be monomaniacal and universally despised. Never thought I’d get whiplash just from reading a comment on Hacker News.

Sure, but then what happened. I suspect the ACLU has refined its opinion on the nature of freedoms. Or the public that funds it has and it realized that it can't do any good if donors pull support because it keeps supporting Nazis. Maybe distinction without a difference.

ethanbond 3y ago
> I suspect the ACLU has refined its opinion on the nature of freedoms. Of all the targets of ire for "woke culture" etc., I'm really surprised that ACLU, SPLC and similar aren't getting more heat. They're actually highly consequential in people's daily lives and can clearly be ideologically captured by a rather small group of people, given that the orgs themselves are so small. Much better targets of critique than random Twitter mobs.
- lazide 3y ago
  It’s mostly because they’re frankly irrelevant anymore (near as I can tell).

fastball 3y ago

Money corrupts all.

Obergruppen 3y ago

The ACLU is not the same organization that it used to be. That neo nazi march they defended was almost 50 years ago. It is doubtful they would take a similar stance today.

bitcurious 3y ago
The ACLU of Virginia did defend the rights of white supremacists to organize in Charlottesville in 2017. I believe the resulting violence triggered some aclu soul searching and I’m not sure where the organization landed on defending the free speech of nazis and the like. Speaking for myself, I hope they keep to their principles.
- alephnerd 3y ago
  > I hope they keep to their principles. Not anymore. The Charlottesville incident was the straw that broke the camel's back [0][1][2]. There was a revolt from donors and plenty of lawyers against their stance during Charlottesville. [0] - https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html [1] - https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/opinion/aclu-first-amendment-trump-charlottesville.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/opinion/aclu-first-amendm... [2] - https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/04/opinion/sunday/free-speech-social-media-violence.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/04/opinion/sunday/free-speec...
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    damn, that's rough. It's a shame because yes, the first amendment does include "the right of the people peaceably to assemble" But that's the rub, PEACEABLY. Clearly what happened in Charlottesville violated that and is no longer protected under the constitution. But we can't ever truly predict the actions of an individual in a large group. I'm very torn. I feel like we veer into Minority Report if we start having to predict what assemblies are prone to violation or not.

sdfhioandion 3y ago

They sure did, but they've changed. They helped obtain permits for the "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville, which devolved into a MAGA riot that ended with a white supremacist murdering one protestor and injuring 35 others. Since then the ACLU has become far more squeamish about their clients and has been willing to compromise on their historical principles. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/aclu-johnny-depp-amber-heard-trial/629808/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/aclu-johnn... I think the ACLU is still a good organization, but it's no longer the ACLU. It should be monomaniacal and universally despised.

Uehreka 3y ago
> I think the ACLU is still a good organization > It should be monomaniacal and universally despised. Never thought I’d get whiplash just from reading a comment on Hacker News.