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> If you condemn Hamas you're "anti-Palestine" This is the first time I'm hearing that sentiment. Folks who are loudly shouting "Free Palestine" are also conde

> If you condemn Hamas you're "anti-Palestine" This is the first time I'm hearing that sentiment. Folks who are loudly shouting "Free Palestine" are also condemning Hamas.

tekla 3y ago
Bullshit. I've been to several of these protests, and I saw plenty of people holding signs indicating that any Palestinian action was justified because of Israel, pretty clearly being okay with the initial attacks.
- nemothekid 3y ago
  Piers Morgan has spent roughly a month talking to various pro-Palestine and pro-Israeli pundits. Each one has loudly condemned Hamas; but many pro-Israeli pundits have refused to even entertain the thought that the Israeli government may be wrong in their response. I know some 19 year old at a protest makes a convenient boogeyman, but be real here, a peon at a protest holds no power. That said "what initial attacks" are you referrering to? Why is retaliation after roughly decades Israeli occupation referred to as an "initial" attack.
  - AdamJacobMuller 3y ago
    This doesn't dispute that there are people out there, people who are supporters of Palestine who think that what happened on 10/7 was somehow justified. Just because Piers Morgan didn't interview them doesn't mean they don't exist. There are also plenty of pro-Palestine people who understand that Hamas is just as much of an enemy to Palestine as it is to Israel.
    - juanani 3y ago
      [dead]
    - pasabagi 3y ago
      I guess the difference is it's a normal position to be supportive of the IDF, or Israeli policy in Gaza. That's one side of the debate. It is absolutely not a normal position to be supportive of Hamas amongst pro-Palestinian voices. That's like a teenage edgelord position. So when you frame the debate as 'Pro-Israel' vs 'Pro-Hamas', it's just as misleading as if you framed it as 'pro nuking Palestine' vs 'pro Peace'.
    - roelschroeven 3y ago
      Of course there are people with that opinion. Think of any thinkable opinion and you'll always find some people who hold that opinion. The problem, I think, is that we often give too much importance to minority opinions, or generalize them and think the majority of a whole group of people think that way. I'm not saying we should always ignore those opinions; just that we should be very careful generalizing.
    - nemothekid 3y ago
      >This doesn't dispute that there are people out there, Yes there are people out there, but who are those people? One one side you have edgy 19 year olds who are "pro-hamas" who will probably never even see an AK-47 up close. On the other side you have Isreali ministers, with direct access to Bibi Netanyahu, who are calling to nuke gaza, a claim so violent and egregious, that the Russian government had to take the claim seriously. It's very scary that the voices of the most violent nobodies on the largely pro-Palestinian, anti-genocide side get amplified, but literal members of the Isreali government calling for dropping nukes get swept under the rug. Being pro-hamas is in no way a mainstream position. To call "bullshit" so strongly when the other side is literally threatening to use nukes is insane.
      - AdamJacobMuller 3y ago
        > On the other side you have Isreali ministers, with direct access to Bibi Netanyahu, who are calling to nuke gaza Ok but that's just nonsense. Amichay Eliyahu is the "minister of heritage" e.g. someone with no military involvement and a position so pointless it's been left vacant for decades before. Regardless of that, he wasn't suggesting to do it, he was asked if it was an option and, yes, it is technically an option, albeit a completely horrific and bad one. Regardless of all of that, he made the comments in an interview on a Sunday morning and was fired on Monday, as he should have been. Nothing he did was swept under the rug, it was swiftly and roundly dealt with. When was the last time you saw someone in palestinian society be so quickly condemned for chanting the far more genocidal "from the river to the sea" ?
Georgelemental 3y ago
Well, Hamas members at least would generally claim this. So the set of people isn't zero.

> If you condemn Hamas you're "anti-Palestine" This is the first time I'm hearing that sentiment. Folks who are loudly shouting "Free Palestine" are also condemning Hamas.

tekla 3y ago

Bullshit. I've been to several of these protests, and I saw plenty of people holding signs indicating that any Palestinian action was justified because of Israel, pretty clearly being okay with the initial attacks.

nemothekid 3y ago
Piers Morgan has spent roughly a month talking to various pro-Palestine and pro-Israeli pundits. Each one has loudly condemned Hamas; but many pro-Israeli pundits have refused to even entertain the thought that the Israeli government may be wrong in their response. I know some 19 year old at a protest makes a convenient boogeyman, but be real here, a peon at a protest holds no power. That said "what initial attacks" are you referrering to? Why is retaliation after roughly decades Israeli occupation referred to as an "initial" attack.
- AdamJacobMuller 3y ago
  This doesn't dispute that there are people out there, people who are supporters of Palestine who think that what happened on 10/7 was somehow justified. Just because Piers Morgan didn't interview them doesn't mean they don't exist. There are also plenty of pro-Palestine people who understand that Hamas is just as much of an enemy to Palestine as it is to Israel.
  - juanani 3y ago
    [dead]
  - pasabagi 3y ago
    I guess the difference is it's a normal position to be supportive of the IDF, or Israeli policy in Gaza. That's one side of the debate. It is absolutely not a normal position to be supportive of Hamas amongst pro-Palestinian voices. That's like a teenage edgelord position. So when you frame the debate as 'Pro-Israel' vs 'Pro-Hamas', it's just as misleading as if you framed it as 'pro nuking Palestine' vs 'pro Peace'.
  - roelschroeven 3y ago
    Of course there are people with that opinion. Think of any thinkable opinion and you'll always find some people who hold that opinion. The problem, I think, is that we often give too much importance to minority opinions, or generalize them and think the majority of a whole group of people think that way. I'm not saying we should always ignore those opinions; just that we should be very careful generalizing.
  - nemothekid 3y ago
    >This doesn't dispute that there are people out there, Yes there are people out there, but who are those people? One one side you have edgy 19 year olds who are "pro-hamas" who will probably never even see an AK-47 up close. On the other side you have Isreali ministers, with direct access to Bibi Netanyahu, who are calling to nuke gaza, a claim so violent and egregious, that the Russian government had to take the claim seriously. It's very scary that the voices of the most violent nobodies on the largely pro-Palestinian, anti-genocide side get amplified, but literal members of the Isreali government calling for dropping nukes get swept under the rug. Being pro-hamas is in no way a mainstream position. To call "bullshit" so strongly when the other side is literally threatening to use nukes is insane.
    - AdamJacobMuller 3y ago
      > On the other side you have Isreali ministers, with direct access to Bibi Netanyahu, who are calling to nuke gaza Ok but that's just nonsense. Amichay Eliyahu is the "minister of heritage" e.g. someone with no military involvement and a position so pointless it's been left vacant for decades before. Regardless of that, he wasn't suggesting to do it, he was asked if it was an option and, yes, it is technically an option, albeit a completely horrific and bad one. Regardless of all of that, he made the comments in an interview on a Sunday morning and was fired on Monday, as he should have been. Nothing he did was swept under the rug, it was swiftly and roundly dealt with. When was the last time you saw someone in palestinian society be so quickly condemned for chanting the far more genocidal "from the river to the sea" ?

Georgelemental 3y ago

Well, Hamas members at least would generally claim this. So the set of people isn't zero.