4 ms·

> all the exchanges Not really. There are plenty of decentralized exchanges which are proven, reliable, auditable, generally used by many without issues. see

> all the exchanges Not really. There are plenty of decentralized exchanges which are proven, reliable, auditable, generally used by many without issues. see: https://uniswap.org https://uniswap.org https://curve.fi/ https://curve.fi/ https://1inch.io https://1inch.io It's the centralized exchanges, which are more akin to traditional financial institutions whose records are not on a publicly visible blockchain but rather private databases or... apparently spreadsheets... which fall victim to the same issues we have seen in the past in the traditional financial world.

pavlov 3y ago
So how do I send USD to Uniswap, and how does my friend in Rome get EUR out of 1inch.io? If that's not possible, it's useless for the proposed use case: "send and receive money globally without any intermediary".
- jejeyyy77 3y ago
  So how do I send gold to Chase, and how does my friend in Rome get receive a wire transfer in EUR?
- immibis 3y ago
  Isn't that a bit like asking how I can send bitcoin with SEPA?
  - immibis 3y ago
    and since I can't send bitcoin with SEPA, obviously SEPA must suck.
epolanski 3y ago
They don't work. You can always charge back a transfer.
zirgs 3y ago
So you need at least 2 middlemen. One exchange where you buy crypto and another exchange where your friend sells that crypto. Or you could simply use a traditional wire transfer and currency would be converted automatically. USA and Italy exchange millions of dollars every day - it's nothing special.
- jejeyyy77 3y ago
  To actually get the money to the other person via wire transfer is actually quite a process (having done many myself). - You will need to get permission from your bank to send international wire transfers (sign forms/agreements). - takes a long time (in the order of days) - expensive (~$50-$75 for outgoing international wire, and $25-$50 to receive it).
  - zirgs 3y ago
    I guess that depends on source and destination countries, because I am able to wire money between different EU countries without any special paperwork. It is no different to domestic transfers or transfers to the same bank. Why would I want to use crypto for that purpose? It seems more inconvenient and risky. I remember that in the beginning people were dreaming about self-contained crypto economy where exchanges would not be needed - that didn't really work out.
  - ygjb 3y ago
    The forms, delays, and fees are because what those financial institutions are doing is providing checks and balances, and de-risking, to the extent they can, performing that transfer. The forms are for KYC activity, and agreements on what the limitations of liability are. The delays are to validate that the transfers are handled and secured, and ideally can't be charged back. The fees are to cover the costs of the people who do the work for that. It's not perfect, but it's quite a bit better than the checks and balances that exist for folks who get hit by a scam and are convinced to go to a crypto kiosk and pay a scammer because they have been frightened by a threat to a loved one, or are taken in by a scammer about services being cut off, or desperately paying off a ransomware demand in the hopes that your business or personal records won't be leaked or published.

pavlov 3y ago

So how do I send USD to Uniswap, and how does my friend in Rome get EUR out of 1inch.io? If that's not possible, it's useless for the proposed use case: "send and receive money globally without any intermediary".

jejeyyy77 3y ago
So how do I send gold to Chase, and how does my friend in Rome get receive a wire transfer in EUR?
immibis 3y ago
Isn't that a bit like asking how I can send bitcoin with SEPA?
- immibis 3y ago
  and since I can't send bitcoin with SEPA, obviously SEPA must suck.

epolanski 3y ago

They don't work. You can always charge back a transfer.

zirgs 3y ago

So you need at least 2 middlemen. One exchange where you buy crypto and another exchange where your friend sells that crypto. Or you could simply use a traditional wire transfer and currency would be converted automatically. USA and Italy exchange millions of dollars every day - it's nothing special.

jejeyyy77 3y ago
To actually get the money to the other person via wire transfer is actually quite a process (having done many myself). - You will need to get permission from your bank to send international wire transfers (sign forms/agreements). - takes a long time (in the order of days) - expensive (~$50-$75 for outgoing international wire, and $25-$50 to receive it).
- zirgs 3y ago
  I guess that depends on source and destination countries, because I am able to wire money between different EU countries without any special paperwork. It is no different to domestic transfers or transfers to the same bank. Why would I want to use crypto for that purpose? It seems more inconvenient and risky. I remember that in the beginning people were dreaming about self-contained crypto economy where exchanges would not be needed - that didn't really work out.
- ygjb 3y ago
  The forms, delays, and fees are because what those financial institutions are doing is providing checks and balances, and de-risking, to the extent they can, performing that transfer. The forms are for KYC activity, and agreements on what the limitations of liability are. The delays are to validate that the transfers are handled and secured, and ideally can't be charged back. The fees are to cover the costs of the people who do the work for that. It's not perfect, but it's quite a bit better than the checks and balances that exist for folks who get hit by a scam and are convinced to go to a crypto kiosk and pay a scammer because they have been frightened by a threat to a loved one, or are taken in by a scammer about services being cut off, or desperately paying off a ransomware demand in the hopes that your business or personal records won't be leaked or published.