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We have been using AI for various tasks for decades now. In fact, every day things you take for granted are powered by machine learning, and most people don't e

by tensor 3y ago

We have been using AI for various tasks for decades now. In fact, every day things you take for granted are powered by machine learning, and most people don't even realize it. Is OCR "a scam just like crypto"? How about voice recognition, used daily all over the world? What about spam filters? Clearly useless over hyped technology right? Even if you wanted to limit the term AI to large language models, which by the way, would make your use of the term incredibly wrong, it STILL has many common and useful application. You can use LLMs to classify text (sentiment, toxicity, etc), they can be paired with voice models to improve speech recognition or improve translation services, and so on. I think it's better to ask what you think the major similarity is between AI and crypto, because it's hard to find any other than a subset of the crypto fanatics now jumping on LLMs as the solution to every problem. But this group isn't actually part of the AI community.

code_runner 3y ago
I completely agree that there is no relationship at all between the two. Hucksters are gonna huckster no matter what the medium is. If you want to ask "are LLMs the next metaverse" or something.... implying LLMs are over-promising on their utility and the hype is all driven by the companies controlling the tech.... even that is a stretch but makes more sense. Anyone selling you AGI, or "make money on youtube by typing a sentence into this prompt" is probably a crypto scammer who found a new group of people to scam.
dragontamer 3y ago
> Is OCR "a scam just like crypto"? OCR is a technology. Cryptocoins are a community. The _SAME_ people who pushed crypto have now moved into the AI sphere and are hawking AI. Its like all the snake oil salesmen of the 1800s suddenly discovered that cars are selling and have become car salesmen. That doesn't mean that cars are a scam, it means that many, many people trying to sell cars to you are scammers. Having our guard up against hucksters, especially when the great community of hucksters are obviously moving in lockstep to say the same thing (and coordinate their arguments thanks to the internet / meme culture), it makes it easy to pick out when to be on guard.
- everfree 3y ago
  OCR is a technology. Users of a particular OCR software form a community. Cryptocoins are a technology. Users of a particular cryptocoin protocol form a community.
  - dragontamer 3y ago
    > Cryptocoins are a technology. Users of a particular cryptocoin protocol form a community. Nah. Cryptocoin users fluidly switch between cryptocoins. You could be into... I dunno... Lunacoin... and by next week you'd have changed all your money into Mooncoin before anyone notices. In fact, I can pump Lunacoin while I'm selling it and no one would be wise to my tricks. OCR users don't really. Its a lot of friction. There's a reason why cryptocoins were so good at scamming. They were fluid enough that you could be a dishonest snake. But if you write like a 10,000 line codebase using tesseract-ocr, you ain't switching off of that without some serious amounts of effort. (Certainly not a week's worth of effort IMO).
    - everfree 3y ago
      I don't really know what you're arguing against. Are you arguing that cryptocoin users don't form communities?
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  >That doesn't mean that cars are a scam, it means that many, many people trying to sell cars to you are scammers. But AI isn't a scam, that's their point. The more opt comparison here may be to horse buggies instead of snake oil. We probably will inevitable move more towards generative content, and everyone's trying to find their place as livelihoods are being impacted. And of course there's the legalities of what's used to train AI. Crypto was completely decoupled and economic concepts aren't exactly copyright to begin with. So this doesn't apply much here.
  - dragontamer 3y ago
    > But AI isn't a scam, that's their point. Anything can be a scam when a scammer is saying it. Its not so hard to make an AI scam. Step 1: Say that you're an AI specialist. Step 2: Take people's money. Step 3: Done. You now have their money. Don't even "profit", just take their money. As long as dumbasses give their money to the latest-and-greatest crap and "technological fashion statements", this scam will continue over-and-over again. I mean, at least the cryptocoin community had a word-babble of blockchain technologies and hashing. AI is so new that they barely have any language for this scam and people are still forking money over. Its almost laughable at how little defenses people have against this. --------- The SBF and FTX saga is your template. Just do the same thing except with AI-like words and you'll get pretty far these days.
lmm 3y ago
> How about voice recognition, used daily all over the world? Yes, absolutely. The money is in selling companies an excuse to keep customers on hold until they give up and stop trying to get the refund they're legally entitled, "voice recognition" is valuable only because it's a legally acceptable smokescreen.
- tensor 3y ago
  Voice recognition is used by people with disabilities all over the world. It's used by voice assistants too. It helps if you consider other people in your view of technology not just your minor pet peeve. Voice recognition is literally life changing for some.
quickthrower2 3y ago
That is like saying “we been using crypto for years: see SSL” Clearly the AI being compared here is the recent boom in generative AI. OCR didn’t have companies chucking billions at experiments and make chip manufacturing stocks soar.

by tensor 3y ago

code_runner 3y ago

I completely agree that there is no relationship at all between the two. Hucksters are gonna huckster no matter what the medium is. If you want to ask "are LLMs the next metaverse" or something.... implying LLMs are over-promising on their utility and the hype is all driven by the companies controlling the tech.... even that is a stretch but makes more sense. Anyone selling you AGI, or "make money on youtube by typing a sentence into this prompt" is probably a crypto scammer who found a new group of people to scam.

dragontamer 3y ago

> Is OCR "a scam just like crypto"? OCR is a technology. Cryptocoins are a community. The _SAME_ people who pushed crypto have now moved into the AI sphere and are hawking AI. Its like all the snake oil salesmen of the 1800s suddenly discovered that cars are selling and have become car salesmen. That doesn't mean that cars are a scam, it means that many, many people trying to sell cars to you are scammers. Having our guard up against hucksters, especially when the great community of hucksters are obviously moving in lockstep to say the same thing (and coordinate their arguments thanks to the internet / meme culture), it makes it easy to pick out when to be on guard.

everfree 3y ago
OCR is a technology. Users of a particular OCR software form a community. Cryptocoins are a technology. Users of a particular cryptocoin protocol form a community.
- dragontamer 3y ago
  > Cryptocoins are a technology. Users of a particular cryptocoin protocol form a community. Nah. Cryptocoin users fluidly switch between cryptocoins. You could be into... I dunno... Lunacoin... and by next week you'd have changed all your money into Mooncoin before anyone notices. In fact, I can pump Lunacoin while I'm selling it and no one would be wise to my tricks. OCR users don't really. Its a lot of friction. There's a reason why cryptocoins were so good at scamming. They were fluid enough that you could be a dishonest snake. But if you write like a 10,000 line codebase using tesseract-ocr, you ain't switching off of that without some serious amounts of effort. (Certainly not a week's worth of effort IMO).
  - everfree 3y ago
    I don't really know what you're arguing against. Are you arguing that cryptocoin users don't form communities?
johnnyanmac 3y ago
>That doesn't mean that cars are a scam, it means that many, many people trying to sell cars to you are scammers. But AI isn't a scam, that's their point. The more opt comparison here may be to horse buggies instead of snake oil. We probably will inevitable move more towards generative content, and everyone's trying to find their place as livelihoods are being impacted. And of course there's the legalities of what's used to train AI. Crypto was completely decoupled and economic concepts aren't exactly copyright to begin with. So this doesn't apply much here.
- dragontamer 3y ago
  > But AI isn't a scam, that's their point. Anything can be a scam when a scammer is saying it. Its not so hard to make an AI scam. Step 1: Say that you're an AI specialist. Step 2: Take people's money. Step 3: Done. You now have their money. Don't even "profit", just take their money. As long as dumbasses give their money to the latest-and-greatest crap and "technological fashion statements", this scam will continue over-and-over again. I mean, at least the cryptocoin community had a word-babble of blockchain technologies and hashing. AI is so new that they barely have any language for this scam and people are still forking money over. Its almost laughable at how little defenses people have against this. --------- The SBF and FTX saga is your template. Just do the same thing except with AI-like words and you'll get pretty far these days.

lmm 3y ago

> How about voice recognition, used daily all over the world? Yes, absolutely. The money is in selling companies an excuse to keep customers on hold until they give up and stop trying to get the refund they're legally entitled, "voice recognition" is valuable only because it's a legally acceptable smokescreen.

tensor 3y ago
Voice recognition is used by people with disabilities all over the world. It's used by voice assistants too. It helps if you consider other people in your view of technology not just your minor pet peeve. Voice recognition is literally life changing for some.

quickthrower2 3y ago

That is like saying “we been using crypto for years: see SSL” Clearly the AI being compared here is the recent boom in generative AI. OCR didn’t have companies chucking billions at experiments and make chip manufacturing stocks soar.