4 ms·

> same old story from Apple: expensive but it consistently just works. Not to mention at least you know where they're hitting you - up front, on the hardware.

> same old story from Apple: expensive but it consistently just works. Not to mention at least you know where they're hitting you - up front, on the hardware. It's like the people that complain about a Macbook being 20% more (or whatever), buying a PC-something, and then coming back complaining that Windows is loaded with ads or Linux has all kinds of issues on it. I'm with you - I went from being a die-hard Linux desktop, Kodi, Android, etc, etc user to just saying "the hell with it" and plunking down for Apple products. They're expensive and they're not perfect either but my life is much less stressing and annoying as a result.

mholm 3y ago
Additionally, if you're willing to resell when you're done with them, you can often get that 'Apple tax' back on the resale price difference.
codedokode 3y ago
Macbook costs like 3x compared to competitors. For example, Apple M1 8 Core score on cpubenchmark is about 14000. If you look for non-Apple laptops with equivalent CPU score, they would cost around $450. And they support Linux. The only good thing in Macbook is display, which covers more than 100% of sRGB color space and has giantic resolution. I wish it could be bought separately and installed into a normal laptop.
- Longlius 3y ago
  Apple Silicon Macbooks also support Linux.
  - codedokode 3y ago
    Oh, by the way in a $450 laptop you can upgrade memory and SSD.
- Toutouxc 3y ago
  Most MacBooks feel like Pareto-optimal machines. There exist other laptops with better displays, faster CPUs, better speakers, or just cheaper, but I'm pretty sure there are no alternatives with better or equal everything.
  - Longlius 3y ago
    My experience buying laptops in 2023 was that most of what I found was cheap junk. Even when I was buying stuff in the $1800-$2500 price range, it was mostly junk with build quality problems, incomplete support for the hardware (USB-C especially being an issue), and terrible thermals. I don't really like Apple as a company but I just hand them money and they give me a laptop that works without any nonsense. Maybe I'm just too old and overpaid nowadays but I legitimately feel like laptop manufacturers other than Apple are in a self-destructive race-to-the-bottom with each other.
- jdminhbg 3y ago
  > If you look for non-Apple laptops with equivalent CPU score, they would cost around $450. And they support Linux. And their battery lasts almost two hours.
  - babypuncher 3y ago
    And they're made of cheap plastic, have horrible keyboard flexing, and their trackpads suck. I am envious of gp though, I kind of miss being younger and thinking the only thing that mattered in a laptop was raw CPU/GPU performance.
- kkielhofner 3y ago
  Artificial benchmarks are interesting but as another personal anecdote, I bought a maxed-out Framework for over $3000 a couple of years ago when I was still Linux desktop oriented. Way more RAM, storage, faster on benchmarks than anything Apple at the time. It was the worst machine I've ever had. One day after doing yet another plug-unplug-reboot-wtf dance to get a display to work (that just worked the day before) I threw my hands up, went to Best Buy and bought some random basic Macbook Pro for $1200 (lower specs, of course). I don't know what the specs or benchmarks look like, I don't care. I just need a tool to do my work. What I do know is that it runs for at least weeks at a time, does absolutely everything I need it to do, and I never feel like I'm waiting for it. Plug/unplug displays, thunderbolt docks, open/close the lid, don't charge it for days at time. Just runs along - cool and silent. I open it, get my work done, close it. Day after day. I absolutely guarantee that even if this Macbook was $6000 I'm way ahead in terms of productivity not to mention stress and frustration - which I value very, very highly. It's been "Ohhh, this is NICE" experiences like this that have chipped away at my previous thinking and pulled me further and further towards Apple. Still not perfect (of course) but the time I spend fixing my tools vs being productive isn't even close. I'm probably just getting old and cranky but I have very little patience for BS at this point in my life. When I was 13 figuring out why RedHat 5.2 didn't boot on my AMD K6 was fun. It's not fun anymore.
- babypuncher 3y ago
  Performance is not the only meaningful metric when evaluating the total value of a laptop. Screen, keyboard, build quality, and a whole host of other factors contribute to it.
graphe 3y ago
Apple works unless you need something specific that every other devices supports but apple doesn't. I've never had a great experience with any laptop but at least I can't say I didn't get screwed on the price most of the time (non apple times). Who remembers how apple didn't admit or fix the Nvidia GPU on their laptop for years but it was easy to just get a new ipod?
- stalfosknight 3y ago
  That nVidia GPU issue was a design flaw on nVidia's part that nVidia refused to take responsibility for. The problem is that normal use and wear and tear over time would lead to the GPU physically failing, leading to a non-bootable system and necessitating a whole new logic board. Apple had a long standing special service program of covering (very expensive) logic board replacements for all of those MacBook Pros that were usually well out of of warranty¹ because Apple gave a damn about making it right whereas nVidia refused to even acknowledge the issue. Source: I was a Mac Genius at an Apple Store from 2008 to 2013. 1) https://www.macrumors.com/2017/05/20/apple-ends-2011-macbook-pro-repair-program/ https://www.macrumors.com/2017/05/20/apple-ends-2011-macbook...
  - graphe 3y ago
    Apple was supposed to vet them. I expect that answer from razer. Only took a few years for them to admit it failed under normal use, by that time it was long outdated. I don't pretend waiting at the apple store is a luxury anymore. The brand is tainted to me.
    - mastercheif 3y ago
      Dell, HP, and Compaq were also affected by the issue. The issue was with the die packaging, nearly impossible to catch post-production. https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2010/10/nvidia-settles-faulty-processor-suit-dell-hp-compaq-mac.html https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2010/10/nvidia-settle...
- kkielhofner 3y ago

mholm 3y ago

Additionally, if you're willing to resell when you're done with them, you can often get that 'Apple tax' back on the resale price difference.

codedokode 3y ago

Macbook costs like 3x compared to competitors. For example, Apple M1 8 Core score on cpubenchmark is about 14000. If you look for non-Apple laptops with equivalent CPU score, they would cost around $450. And they support Linux. The only good thing in Macbook is display, which covers more than 100% of sRGB color space and has giantic resolution. I wish it could be bought separately and installed into a normal laptop.

Longlius 3y ago
Apple Silicon Macbooks also support Linux.
- codedokode 3y ago
  Oh, by the way in a $450 laptop you can upgrade memory and SSD.
Toutouxc 3y ago
Most MacBooks feel like Pareto-optimal machines. There exist other laptops with better displays, faster CPUs, better speakers, or just cheaper, but I'm pretty sure there are no alternatives with better or equal everything.
- Longlius 3y ago
  My experience buying laptops in 2023 was that most of what I found was cheap junk. Even when I was buying stuff in the $1800-$2500 price range, it was mostly junk with build quality problems, incomplete support for the hardware (USB-C especially being an issue), and terrible thermals. I don't really like Apple as a company but I just hand them money and they give me a laptop that works without any nonsense. Maybe I'm just too old and overpaid nowadays but I legitimately feel like laptop manufacturers other than Apple are in a self-destructive race-to-the-bottom with each other.
jdminhbg 3y ago
> If you look for non-Apple laptops with equivalent CPU score, they would cost around $450. And they support Linux. And their battery lasts almost two hours.
- babypuncher 3y ago
  And they're made of cheap plastic, have horrible keyboard flexing, and their trackpads suck. I am envious of gp though, I kind of miss being younger and thinking the only thing that mattered in a laptop was raw CPU/GPU performance.
kkielhofner 3y ago
Artificial benchmarks are interesting but as another personal anecdote, I bought a maxed-out Framework for over $3000 a couple of years ago when I was still Linux desktop oriented. Way more RAM, storage, faster on benchmarks than anything Apple at the time. It was the worst machine I've ever had. One day after doing yet another plug-unplug-reboot-wtf dance to get a display to work (that just worked the day before) I threw my hands up, went to Best Buy and bought some random basic Macbook Pro for $1200 (lower specs, of course). I don't know what the specs or benchmarks look like, I don't care. I just need a tool to do my work. What I do know is that it runs for at least weeks at a time, does absolutely everything I need it to do, and I never feel like I'm waiting for it. Plug/unplug displays, thunderbolt docks, open/close the lid, don't charge it for days at time. Just runs along - cool and silent. I open it, get my work done, close it. Day after day. I absolutely guarantee that even if this Macbook was $6000 I'm way ahead in terms of productivity not to mention stress and frustration - which I value very, very highly. It's been "Ohhh, this is NICE" experiences like this that have chipped away at my previous thinking and pulled me further and further towards Apple. Still not perfect (of course) but the time I spend fixing my tools vs being productive isn't even close. I'm probably just getting old and cranky but I have very little patience for BS at this point in my life. When I was 13 figuring out why RedHat 5.2 didn't boot on my AMD K6 was fun. It's not fun anymore.
babypuncher 3y ago
Performance is not the only meaningful metric when evaluating the total value of a laptop. Screen, keyboard, build quality, and a whole host of other factors contribute to it.

graphe 3y ago

Apple works unless you need something specific that every other devices supports but apple doesn't. I've never had a great experience with any laptop but at least I can't say I didn't get screwed on the price most of the time (non apple times). Who remembers how apple didn't admit or fix the Nvidia GPU on their laptop for years but it was easy to just get a new ipod?

stalfosknight 3y ago
That nVidia GPU issue was a design flaw on nVidia's part that nVidia refused to take responsibility for. The problem is that normal use and wear and tear over time would lead to the GPU physically failing, leading to a non-bootable system and necessitating a whole new logic board. Apple had a long standing special service program of covering (very expensive) logic board replacements for all of those MacBook Pros that were usually well out of of warranty¹ because Apple gave a damn about making it right whereas nVidia refused to even acknowledge the issue. Source: I was a Mac Genius at an Apple Store from 2008 to 2013. 1) https://www.macrumors.com/2017/05/20/apple-ends-2011-macbook-pro-repair-program/ https://www.macrumors.com/2017/05/20/apple-ends-2011-macbook...
- graphe 3y ago
  Apple was supposed to vet them. I expect that answer from razer. Only took a few years for them to admit it failed under normal use, by that time it was long outdated. I don't pretend waiting at the apple store is a luxury anymore. The brand is tainted to me.
  - mastercheif 3y ago
    Dell, HP, and Compaq were also affected by the issue. The issue was with the die packaging, nearly impossible to catch post-production. https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2010/10/nvidia-settles-faulty-processor-suit-dell-hp-compaq-mac.html https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2010/10/nvidia-settle...
kkielhofner 3y ago