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The documentation linked for torture on that press release (SUMMARY OF VIOLATIONS OF THE CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE) says: "Most frequently such torture or oth

The documentation linked for torture on that press release (SUMMARY OF VIOLATIONS OF THE CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE) says: "Most frequently such torture or other ill-treatment takes the form of beatings: many detainees have described being beaten with gun butts immediately after arrest and then thrown on the floor of a jeep, where they lie during the journey under the boots of soldiers. It may also involve the use of dogs in an aggressive manner, painful shackling (if related to an arrest) or humiliating or degrading treatment." Having been to Brazilian prison (and being under Brazil's jurisdiction) I wouldn't classify this as torture, otherwise my brother was also tortured when arrested for drug trafficking. I wouldn't say this type of violence is as shocking as Hamas is, too.

dragonwriter 3y ago
> Having been to Brazilian prison I wouldn't classify this as torture, otherwise my brother was also tortured when arrested for drug trafficking. So, either Israel doesn't torture or someone in prison for drug trafficking in a system in which torture is a well-known (and apparently, from polling, widely publicly accepted!) systemic feature of the law enforcement and prison system [0] was tortured? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_in_Brazil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_in_Brazil
- hotdogscout 3y ago
  I think there's a difference between mutilating someone's limbs and hitting them with the back of a gun and UN's definition doesn't accurately describe that difference.
  - giraffe_lady 3y ago
    Have you experienced any of these things or witnessed them up close? I think one big thing the waterboarding era should have taught us that it's hard to accurately gauge the horror of a technique from a distance. And that torturers take advantage of this tension.
    - hotdogscout 3y ago
      I've been beaten more times than I can count by gangs as a child for being effeminate (one of them breaking my right arm that's still crooked) and stripped naked once. I can post photographic evidence if it's ok by HN's rules. I am fine with it, apart from my arm being crooked I don't mind, I even think it made me a more resilient person. I know my feelings can be offensive but I'm being honest. I empathize with people that have been traumatized by this kind of violence but I wasn't. My father was also beaten by the police as a kid for playing with a wind vane because it resembles a swastika. I still think the UN fails by putting limb mutilation and immolation under the same category of being beaten with the back of a gun.
      - giraffe_lady 3y ago
        You don't need to prove it. My point is that what's torture depends more on the psychological context than the type or extent of the injury. FWIW I got a bunch of teeth knocked out by a cop with a baton and I'm haunted by it. It wasn't a melee or brawl or chaotic situation: I was under his complete control, he lined up the shot and took it. It felt like torture to me, and I'm happy that the UN agrees.

dragonwriter 3y ago

> Having been to Brazilian prison I wouldn't classify this as torture, otherwise my brother was also tortured when arrested for drug trafficking. So, either Israel doesn't torture or someone in prison for drug trafficking in a system in which torture is a well-known (and apparently, from polling, widely publicly accepted!) systemic feature of the law enforcement and prison system [0] was tortured? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_in_Brazil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_in_Brazil

hotdogscout 3y ago
I think there's a difference between mutilating someone's limbs and hitting them with the back of a gun and UN's definition doesn't accurately describe that difference.
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  Have you experienced any of these things or witnessed them up close? I think one big thing the waterboarding era should have taught us that it's hard to accurately gauge the horror of a technique from a distance. And that torturers take advantage of this tension.
  - hotdogscout 3y ago
    I've been beaten more times than I can count by gangs as a child for being effeminate (one of them breaking my right arm that's still crooked) and stripped naked once. I can post photographic evidence if it's ok by HN's rules. I am fine with it, apart from my arm being crooked I don't mind, I even think it made me a more resilient person. I know my feelings can be offensive but I'm being honest. I empathize with people that have been traumatized by this kind of violence but I wasn't. My father was also beaten by the police as a kid for playing with a wind vane because it resembles a swastika. I still think the UN fails by putting limb mutilation and immolation under the same category of being beaten with the back of a gun.
    - giraffe_lady 3y ago
      You don't need to prove it. My point is that what's torture depends more on the psychological context than the type or extent of the injury. FWIW I got a bunch of teeth knocked out by a cop with a baton and I'm haunted by it. It wasn't a melee or brawl or chaotic situation: I was under his complete control, he lined up the shot and took it. It felt like torture to me, and I'm happy that the UN agrees.