3 ms·

There are sometimes apartments spotted around in a suburby area, but due to the nature of US suburbs they don't really get many of the advantages density should

There are sometimes apartments spotted around in a suburby area, but due to the nature of US suburbs they don't really get many of the advantages density should bring - everything you might want to go to is still at least a moderate car ride away, there's no people out and about because there's no reason for them to be there, etc. Any time you leave your apartment you go straight to the parking lot and get in your car. It's pathetic really.

jjav 3y ago
> due to the nature of US suburbs The US is a big place. Lots of different suburbs. > everything you might want to go to is still at least a moderate car ride away, there's no people out and about because there's no reason for them to be there Can you point at specific places like this? Google street view links? Every suburb I've lived in the US I can walk to just about everything I need, kids walk to playground and parks, friends houses, etc. I'm curious to see these suburbs where one can't walk anywhere.
- mikebenfield 3y ago
  To be honest this is one of those Internet comments where I feel like the commenter is in a different reality than me. None of the dozens of suburban US people I've known has ever found it feasible to walk to much of anything - yes, maybe a neighborhood playground if they're lucky. They definitely don't walk to the grocery store, to a restaurant, to a bar, to the gym, to work, etc. Here's a suburb: https://www.google.com/maps/@35.107277,-80.6508196,3a,75y,251.35h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1slmOXwMF1msELnYCZGLVhdA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DlmOXwMF1msELnYCZGLVhdA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D247.57867%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@35.107277,-80.6508196,3a,75y,25... Here's another: https://www.google.com/maps/@37.3137771,-121.9844666,3a,75y,149.8h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1spHiEzN7CgV9Kd6hD6fQFFA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DpHiEzN7CgV9Kd6hD6fQFFA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D155.1572%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@37.3137771,-121.9844666,3a,75y,... In the latter it _may_ be theoretically feasible to walk to a couple restaurants, if you don't mind a fairly unpleasant trip. In practice I guarantee you almost no one does this. But those are just a couple arbitrary choices; in my experience they're pretty much all like that. On the other hand, by being selective about where I live (walkable neighborhoods are scarce in the US), I've been able to live in several places where a great grocery store, a gym, multiple great restaurants, a bar or two, and other interesting destinations were within a 5 minute walk - in some cases literally right next door. If most of the land around you is taken up by single family homes with pointlessly large lots, it's completely infeasible for anything more than a tiny percentage of people to live close to these things, short of building a grocery store for every 100 people or something absurd.
  - jjav 3y ago
    > To be honest this is one of those Internet comments where I feel like the commenter is in a different reality than me. Same, but that's why I say the US is a big place. There isn't a standard US suburb. > They definitely don't walk to the grocery store, to a restaurant, to a bar, to the gym, to work, etc. That is alien to my experience. I can walk to all of those, with multiple instances of each one, from a suburban SFH. On the first link near Charlotte, I have two comments: First one is that it stretches the definition of suburb. Switch to satellite view and zoom out until you see Charlotte. Those houses are in the midst of vast stretches of green, far away from the nearest urban area (Charlotte) a half hour away. That seems semi-rural to me. Are we calling that a suburb? Even so, there is a supermarket, gym, tavern and a few other stores within 1 mile. A very easy bike ride. The second link is definitely suburban, smack in the middle of built-up areas. Also more familiar to me since I have lived in various spots not far from there. You can easily walk to Saratoga Ave which is full of businesses.
    - mikebenfield 3y ago
      So there's a pretty big push for urbanism the last few years. There's lots of YouTube channels and other social media stuff dedicated to the idea that the US needs more walkable neighborhoods, more bike infrastructure, less car dependence, etc. In your view then... what in the world is this about? If suburbs are perfectly walkable, why does anyone care about urbanism? Why does this channel https://www.youtube.com/c/notjustbikes https://www.youtube.com/c/notjustbikes have over a million subscribers? Moreover, why is the suburb such a post-automobile phenomenon? If it's viable to get everywhere from a suburb without a car, why were people in 1000 BCE or 1000 CE or 1800 CE not living in suburbs? I just find this perspective so weird... I've definitely met plenty of people who are very pro-suburb, but it's because they consider it natural and acceptable to need a car for any trip, not because they think they can get places without a car.
      - bluGill 3y ago
        Suburbs are not perfectly walkable. As a.crow flies there are things in range ,but often there are fences in the way so you can't get there. Even if you can, the door face the road and so you spend most of acceptable walking distance just getting around the building. And there are no or poor sidewalks on the trip so you end up mixing with cars too much. I bike to the.grocery store, it isn't too far, but the trip is not pleasant because everything is setup or driving.

jjav 3y ago

> due to the nature of US suburbs The US is a big place. Lots of different suburbs. > everything you might want to go to is still at least a moderate car ride away, there's no people out and about because there's no reason for them to be there Can you point at specific places like this? Google street view links? Every suburb I've lived in the US I can walk to just about everything I need, kids walk to playground and parks, friends houses, etc. I'm curious to see these suburbs where one can't walk anywhere.

mikebenfield 3y ago
To be honest this is one of those Internet comments where I feel like the commenter is in a different reality than me. None of the dozens of suburban US people I've known has ever found it feasible to walk to much of anything - yes, maybe a neighborhood playground if they're lucky. They definitely don't walk to the grocery store, to a restaurant, to a bar, to the gym, to work, etc. Here's a suburb: https://www.google.com/maps/@35.107277,-80.6508196,3a,75y,251.35h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1slmOXwMF1msELnYCZGLVhdA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DlmOXwMF1msELnYCZGLVhdA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D247.57867%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@35.107277,-80.6508196,3a,75y,25... Here's another: https://www.google.com/maps/@37.3137771,-121.9844666,3a,75y,149.8h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1spHiEzN7CgV9Kd6hD6fQFFA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DpHiEzN7CgV9Kd6hD6fQFFA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D155.1572%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@37.3137771,-121.9844666,3a,75y,... In the latter it _may_ be theoretically feasible to walk to a couple restaurants, if you don't mind a fairly unpleasant trip. In practice I guarantee you almost no one does this. But those are just a couple arbitrary choices; in my experience they're pretty much all like that. On the other hand, by being selective about where I live (walkable neighborhoods are scarce in the US), I've been able to live in several places where a great grocery store, a gym, multiple great restaurants, a bar or two, and other interesting destinations were within a 5 minute walk - in some cases literally right next door. If most of the land around you is taken up by single family homes with pointlessly large lots, it's completely infeasible for anything more than a tiny percentage of people to live close to these things, short of building a grocery store for every 100 people or something absurd.
- jjav 3y ago
  > To be honest this is one of those Internet comments where I feel like the commenter is in a different reality than me. Same, but that's why I say the US is a big place. There isn't a standard US suburb. > They definitely don't walk to the grocery store, to a restaurant, to a bar, to the gym, to work, etc. That is alien to my experience. I can walk to all of those, with multiple instances of each one, from a suburban SFH. On the first link near Charlotte, I have two comments: First one is that it stretches the definition of suburb. Switch to satellite view and zoom out until you see Charlotte. Those houses are in the midst of vast stretches of green, far away from the nearest urban area (Charlotte) a half hour away. That seems semi-rural to me. Are we calling that a suburb? Even so, there is a supermarket, gym, tavern and a few other stores within 1 mile. A very easy bike ride. The second link is definitely suburban, smack in the middle of built-up areas. Also more familiar to me since I have lived in various spots not far from there. You can easily walk to Saratoga Ave which is full of businesses.
  - mikebenfield 3y ago
    So there's a pretty big push for urbanism the last few years. There's lots of YouTube channels and other social media stuff dedicated to the idea that the US needs more walkable neighborhoods, more bike infrastructure, less car dependence, etc. In your view then... what in the world is this about? If suburbs are perfectly walkable, why does anyone care about urbanism? Why does this channel https://www.youtube.com/c/notjustbikes https://www.youtube.com/c/notjustbikes have over a million subscribers? Moreover, why is the suburb such a post-automobile phenomenon? If it's viable to get everywhere from a suburb without a car, why were people in 1000 BCE or 1000 CE or 1800 CE not living in suburbs? I just find this perspective so weird... I've definitely met plenty of people who are very pro-suburb, but it's because they consider it natural and acceptable to need a car for any trip, not because they think they can get places without a car.
    - bluGill 3y ago
      Suburbs are not perfectly walkable. As a.crow flies there are things in range ,but often there are fences in the way so you can't get there. Even if you can, the door face the road and so you spend most of acceptable walking distance just getting around the building. And there are no or poor sidewalks on the trip so you end up mixing with cars too much. I bike to the.grocery store, it isn't too far, but the trip is not pleasant because everything is setup or driving.