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Begin rant. Call me crazy, but all the great music of today is being done in video games and cinema scoring. I'm sure this system is useful for some, but I can

Begin rant. Call me crazy, but all the great music of today is being done in video games and cinema scoring. I'm sure this system is useful for some, but I can't help but feel the kinds of modern classical featured are just noise. The claim is often that music is cultural. I'm sure that's true, but then where is the great modern Western classical music? Why was it thrown away? There are reasonable explorations to be had. For example, modern composers could have chosen to integrate Jazz harmonies (which still sound concordant), but instead they chose to go off the deep end with atonality, aharmony, and arhythm. We gotta end the postmodernism and return to actually nice things. And really, it's sad because the kinds of scores being produced with the rhythm changes every measure, etc. They really ultimately sound like the pretentious ramblings of some drunk/high guy at a MIDI controller instead of the carefully assembled score. It takes real talent to properly keep meter over the course of an entire song. Just banging some keys and then making other people attempt to replicate it... I mean props to the replicators (the players), but the scorer just threw some notes on a page. In my opinion, this is a racist response by mainly European composers to the popularity of Jazz music which is associated mainly with African Americans, from whom the source originated. They were jealous of what they perceived as the novel rhythms and harmonies, but instead of building off that or inventing something new that still had rhythmic and harmonic value.. they did this

TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
The accusation of racism is an interesting take. There were strong links and crossovers between jazz and classical music until serialism happened. They didn't develop independently. It wasn't all that unusual for black jazz players and composers to be as classically trained as white musicians. But serialism was too far for most people. And still is. Failed composer/critic Adorno, who adored serial music and is a Big Name on the scene, absolutely loathed jazz and popular music. It's not really atonal. It's antitonal. Truly atonal music wouldn't care about standard pitches or notation at all, because they're still based on the harmonic series. It's antitonal because it pretends that's not true, while also trying its best to avoid the usual paths through harmonic space. As for the quality - there's an opera called Wozzeck which is performed fairly regularly. The rest is mostly museum music - relegated to special academic festivals. Not mainstream at all. It's actually very structured, and if you know what's happening you can hear the patterns and components going by. But as music it has a very limited emotional range. And intellectually, most of it is pure crossword puzzling for the sake of it.
gnulinux 3y ago
> I'm sure that's true, but then where is the great modern Western classical music? It's like literally everywhere! I almost exclusively listen to contemporary Western classical music (WCM) and it's never been more exciting and better. There has never been a time where there are so many different dominant styles at the same time. There are atonalists [1] like Unsuk Chin, Jennifer Koh, Charles Wuorinen, Fred Lerdahl. There are neo-Romanticists like Jennifer Higdon, Michael Torke, Thomas Ades. There are minimalists like Caroline Shaw, Max Richter, Bent Sorensen, Christine Southworth and their ur-father Philip Glass who still writes music at 86. If you're interested in my full opinions about the cultural force of contemporary WCM please read this [2] HN comment of mine. Seriously contemporary WCM is awesome. It's very cliche but "if you don't like it, move on". > In my opinion, this is a racist response by mainly European composers to the popularity of Jazz music which is associated mainly with African Americans, from whom the source originated. They were jealous of what they perceived as the novel rhythms and harmonies, but instead of building off that or inventing something new that still had rhythmic and harmonic value.. they did this Meh, I don't think this is true at all. They're just entirely different artistic traditions. Just because haiku exists doesn't mean American novels can't. I don't dispute that tons of normie classical music listeners (like r/classicalmusic) are racists/elitists. These people almost exclusively listen to old German common practice stuff like Bach or Mozart. They pretend that 18th century German music is somehow superior to everything else. Almost none of them would consider Ligeti or Glass even classical music. This is not the contemporary Western classical music scene at all. It seems like you may not have a sophisticated enough understanding of this subculture, imho. [1] mostly Ligeti/Messiaen inspired people as opposed to Serialists [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37424409 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37424409
tmtvl 3y ago
> Call me crazy, but all the great music of today is being done in video games and cinema scoring. Okay, you're crazy. ...But seriously, when's the last time you heard a good speed metal song in a video game? And no, Brütal Legend doesn't count. > but then where is the great modern Western classical music? What, like Johannsson? With how much new material is being released every year the question isn't "where are the great works," but "how do we separate the greatest works from the lesser ones?" > We gotta end the postmodernism and return to actually nice things. This reminds me of Beethoven's Große Fuge, which some called repellent and other called a masterpiece. It's like how I don't understand Cubism but some people love it so there must be something I just don't see. And remember Hitchen's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
dreamcompiler 3y ago
I suggest you listen to some of Maria Schneider's work. It fuses jazz, classical, and even rock (she collaborated with David Bowie on his last album). And Schneider is just one counterexample to your thesis. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Schneider_(musician) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Schneider_(musician)
- anon291 3y ago
  I would classify her as a Jazz artist. Contemporary Jazz is great.
notfed 3y ago
> the kinds of modern classical featured are just noise Ok? Maybe they chose noisy examples on purpose? Focusing on their specific music choices is purely bikeshedding, and misses the point of the whole point of the project. And your rant about "music of today" shows that you live in a bubble. There is no "music of today". There's a vast sea of musical diversity in this world. > In my opinion, this is a racist response It's really unclear what response you're referring to. Are you talking about your own response?

TheOtherHobbes 3y ago

The accusation of racism is an interesting take. There were strong links and crossovers between jazz and classical music until serialism happened. They didn't develop independently. It wasn't all that unusual for black jazz players and composers to be as classically trained as white musicians. But serialism was too far for most people. And still is. Failed composer/critic Adorno, who adored serial music and is a Big Name on the scene, absolutely loathed jazz and popular music. It's not really atonal. It's antitonal. Truly atonal music wouldn't care about standard pitches or notation at all, because they're still based on the harmonic series. It's antitonal because it pretends that's not true, while also trying its best to avoid the usual paths through harmonic space. As for the quality - there's an opera called Wozzeck which is performed fairly regularly. The rest is mostly museum music - relegated to special academic festivals. Not mainstream at all. It's actually very structured, and if you know what's happening you can hear the patterns and components going by. But as music it has a very limited emotional range. And intellectually, most of it is pure crossword puzzling for the sake of it.

gnulinux 3y ago

> I'm sure that's true, but then where is the great modern Western classical music? It's like literally everywhere! I almost exclusively listen to contemporary Western classical music (WCM) and it's never been more exciting and better. There has never been a time where there are so many different dominant styles at the same time. There are atonalists [1] like Unsuk Chin, Jennifer Koh, Charles Wuorinen, Fred Lerdahl. There are neo-Romanticists like Jennifer Higdon, Michael Torke, Thomas Ades. There are minimalists like Caroline Shaw, Max Richter, Bent Sorensen, Christine Southworth and their ur-father Philip Glass who still writes music at 86. If you're interested in my full opinions about the cultural force of contemporary WCM please read this [2] HN comment of mine. Seriously contemporary WCM is awesome. It's very cliche but "if you don't like it, move on". > In my opinion, this is a racist response by mainly European composers to the popularity of Jazz music which is associated mainly with African Americans, from whom the source originated. They were jealous of what they perceived as the novel rhythms and harmonies, but instead of building off that or inventing something new that still had rhythmic and harmonic value.. they did this Meh, I don't think this is true at all. They're just entirely different artistic traditions. Just because haiku exists doesn't mean American novels can't. I don't dispute that tons of normie classical music listeners (like r/classicalmusic) are racists/elitists. These people almost exclusively listen to old German common practice stuff like Bach or Mozart. They pretend that 18th century German music is somehow superior to everything else. Almost none of them would consider Ligeti or Glass even classical music. This is not the contemporary Western classical music scene at all. It seems like you may not have a sophisticated enough understanding of this subculture, imho. [1] mostly Ligeti/Messiaen inspired people as opposed to Serialists [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37424409 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37424409

tmtvl 3y ago

> Call me crazy, but all the great music of today is being done in video games and cinema scoring. Okay, you're crazy. ...But seriously, when's the last time you heard a good speed metal song in a video game? And no, Brütal Legend doesn't count. > but then where is the great modern Western classical music? What, like Johannsson? With how much new material is being released every year the question isn't "where are the great works," but "how do we separate the greatest works from the lesser ones?" > We gotta end the postmodernism and return to actually nice things. This reminds me of Beethoven's Große Fuge, which some called repellent and other called a masterpiece. It's like how I don't understand Cubism but some people love it so there must be something I just don't see. And remember Hitchen's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

dreamcompiler 3y ago

I suggest you listen to some of Maria Schneider's work. It fuses jazz, classical, and even rock (she collaborated with David Bowie on his last album). And Schneider is just one counterexample to your thesis. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Schneider_(musician) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Schneider_(musician)

anon291 3y ago
I would classify her as a Jazz artist. Contemporary Jazz is great.

notfed 3y ago

> the kinds of modern classical featured are just noise Ok? Maybe they chose noisy examples on purpose? Focusing on their specific music choices is purely bikeshedding, and misses the point of the whole point of the project. And your rant about "music of today" shows that you live in a bubble. There is no "music of today". There's a vast sea of musical diversity in this world. > In my opinion, this is a racist response It's really unclear what response you're referring to. Are you talking about your own response?