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Google's Open Culture Collides with the Israel-Hamas War

26 points by srameshc 3y ago

jseliger 3y ago
The NYT says: "In the month since Hamas launched an attack inside Israel, and Israel retaliated with a bombing campaign." "Hamas launched an attack inside Israel" doesn't accurately convey what happened: Hamas terrorists murdered more than a thousand civilians, and deliberately engaged in widespread, barbaric acts of torture, rape, and kidnapping. "Launched an attack" is, I guess, not exactly a lie, but so euphemistic as to be wildly misleading.
- gsk22 3y ago
  To be fair, "Israel retaliated with a bombing campaign" doesn't exactly describe the terror inflicted on the citizen population of Gaza either. Part of high-quality journalism is being precise without emotion or opinion clouding the reporting.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- activescott 3y ago
  Talking about how bad a war is seems always misleading to me. Does "Israel retaliated with a bombing campaign" convey that in the last 32 days since October 7, 10,328 people were killed in Gaza. Does it convey that 67% of those killed were children and women? It is all barbaric.
  - nailer 3y ago
    It also doesn't convey that those people being used by Hamas as human shields, Hamas told Palestinians not to evacuate, Hamas shot people that did evacuate, and Hamas used IEDs on roads. https://www.instagram.com/p/CzWbutetwys/ https://www.instagram.com/p/CzWbutetwys/ That said, it's reasonable to suggest Israel should have done a better job of protecting Palestinians from Hamas, as they are now doing: https://twitter.com/hilzfuld/status/1722306279861809659 https://twitter.com/hilzfuld/status/1722306279861809659
    - PolygonSheep 3y ago
      > Israel should have done a better job of protecting Palestinians from Hamas, as they are now doing: They've protected over 10,000 Palestinians so far!
      - nailer 3y ago
        Stats from the Gaza ministry of health are from Hamas. Secondly it’s hamas that uses civilian infrastructure to hide behind.
        defrost 3y ago
        UNICEF defends accuracy of Gaza death toll as horror unfolds in ravaged enclave https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/07/world/gaza-death-toll-accuracy-unicef-intl-hnk/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/07/world/gaza-death-toll-acc... A UNICEF spokesperson has defended the death toll being reported out of Gaza, saying the organization’s figures had historically matched those of the Hamas-controlled Gazan health ministry. UNICEF spokesperson James Elder said on Tuesday the organization’s estimates had closely aligned with the ministry’s in the past, which gave him confidence in the current figures. He told CNN’s Julia Chatterley: “Our numbers were within a couple of percent of that, almost identical. We don’t have that concern based on past history.” > it’s hamas that uses civilian infrastructure to hide behind. Would you approve of the IDF bombing occupied Israeli apartments, schools, hospitals, etc if Hamas tunnelled under those? It's a ~ 4K children body count the IDF have racked up since the Hamas attack - is that a fair and considered response?
        nailer 3y ago
        That's nice re: UNICEF. Frankly it's unlikely anybody knows the death count in Gaza - it won't be zero, but any charity that has access to Gaza does so on behalf of Hamas and some (UNHCR) even directly fund Hamas. > Would you approve of the IDF bombing occupied Israeli apartments, schools, hospitals, etc if Hamas tunnelled under those? It's unlikely that Israelis would let a terrorist organisation operate our of a school or hospital. But yes, the IDF would evacuate the area before engaging just like they do with Gaza.
- k99x55 3y ago
  How many of those civilians were ex-military (all?), how many were settlers in stolen land? If you knowingly occupy someones stolen land you are not that innocent are you? And, Israel does not have the right to defend itself. Israel is the settler aggressor. The biggest terrorist is Israel. Israel is a settler colonial racist Apartheid regime.
  - nailer 3y ago
    > how many were settlers in stolen land? Zero. Jews were in Israel under: Babylonians, Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Crusaders, Ottomans and the British. Look at the Al Aqsa mosque. See the giant thing underneath it? Before 1948, they purchased land from Ottomans. After 1948 Arab states kept declaring war on Israel and losing, making Israel larger.
    - activescott 3y ago
      This is a bit more complicated. Jews were in Palestine before 1948 and lived alongside Arabs in peace throughout the Ottoman Empire. They often fled persecution in Europe to the Ottoman Empire: https://en.wikipedia.orgt/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ottoman_Empire https://en.wikipedia.orgt/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ot... The historical timeline of Palestine leading up to and since 1948 is https://www.un.org/unispal/historical-timeline/ https://www.un.org/unispal/historical-timeline/ The timeline is good overall, but the four-minute video there is a good summary. A direct link to the video is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBjMbe24Vu0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBjMbe24Vu0.
      - nailer 3y ago
        > lived alongside Arabs in peace throughout the Ottoman Empire No. Multiple violent confrontations. You can find ample sources for this. Partition into jewish and Arab states was to avoid bloodshed. > The historical timeline of Palestine leading up to and since 1948 This is a bizarre document that starts in 1885, at minimum you would start about 136AD with the renaming of Israel to Philestinea by the Romans. But then again, the UN is famously run by various tinpot dictators that raise more resolutions against Israel than themselves.
- nikolay 3y ago
  An unproportional savegery response to a savegery makes you even a bigger savage! Sorry, but the world is not deaf and blind! Keep supporting the genocide and thus you're digging Israel into a deeper hole! The young people are all against Israel's genocidal apartheid - and these are the future voters! Israel with all its high-tech cannot manipulate the narrative!
  - nailer 3y ago
    > Keep supporting the genocide Israel has 2.1M arabs, the descendents of the arabs that stayed after 1948 when arab states declared war on Israel. Israeli arabs have better lives than in any Arab state. They can vote for their own leaders, be elected to parliament, be of a different sect of Islam without concern for their safety, leave Islam without concern for their safety, be gay without concern for their safety, and serve in the IDF. Arabs in Qatar and the UAE and west bank and Gaza wish they had the freedoms of Arabs in Israel. Ask any Jewish person in Tel Aviv and they'll tell you the best Hummus in town is actually not in Tel Aviv, it's at Abu Hassan in Yafo (the smaller one near the coast).
    - nikolay 3y ago
      That's absolutely false. Arabs in Israel do not have the same rights as Israeli Jews and I'm not talking about Palestinians.
      - poisonarena 3y ago
        thats absolutely false, I have lived in haifa for years and nearly all my friends are arabs and druze.. they have the exact same rights as I do, only they dont have to go to the army (though some choose to !)
      - nailer 3y ago
        Be more specific. I can’t respond if you can’t identify what is false.
        3y ago
- paulddraper 3y ago
  > launched an attack Doesn't sound like euphemism to me. What kind of international attack is the nice kind of attack??
RcouF1uZ4gsC 3y ago
[flagged]
creer 3y ago
https://archive.ph/QN1fM https://archive.ph/QN1fM
serialthrilla2 3y ago
[flagged]
- mpalmer 3y ago
  The meta-disagreement is whether the "now" is all that matters, or whether Israel doing all that is necessary to recover the hostages is a pretext to greater, more sustained Israeli control of Palestinian territory.
  - nailer 3y ago
    Unsubstantiated word is the Hamas attack likely happened because Israel wanted Saudi Arabia to take control of Gaza.
- nailer 3y ago
  Likewise. People also seem to think the Palestinians all support Hamas, which uses the Palestinians as human shields. Gaza did vote for Hamas in 2006, but that was 18 years ago. https://x.com/JituChaudhary25/status/1720097411547500652 https://x.com/JituChaudhary25/status/1720097411547500652 Keep in mind Hamas kill Fatah and other opposition members, so speaking out against them is dangerous. But I have about 10 other videos of similar.
  - paulddraper 3y ago
    Hamas polled at 53% support in 2021. [1] Just one data point, but provide contrary data if you have it. [1] https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87 https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8...
    - serialthrilla2 3y ago
      That's interesting and sad that they're polling so high. It makes me question what culpability a nation has with the actions of its government. If "let the politicians run politics" or (they're a mean mob so we don't risk putting up a fight) is the thought of the citizens and then a war is started, as civilians are we indemnified or responsible?
paulddraper 3y ago
> But workers looking to express support for Palestinians say they face hostility. Russians: "First time?"
- unsubstantiated 3y ago
  [flagged]
activescott 3y ago
Anyone else find it ironic that this post was flagged?

26 points by srameshc 3y ago

The NYT says: "In the month since Hamas launched an attack inside Israel, and Israel retaliated with a bombing campaign." "Hamas launched an attack inside Israel" doesn't accurately convey what happened: Hamas terrorists murdered more than a thousand civilians, and deliberately engaged in widespread, barbaric acts of torture, rape, and kidnapping. "Launched an attack" is, I guess, not exactly a lie, but so euphemistic as to be wildly misleading.

gsk22 3y ago
To be fair, "Israel retaliated with a bombing campaign" doesn't exactly describe the terror inflicted on the citizen population of Gaza either. Part of high-quality journalism is being precise without emotion or opinion clouding the reporting.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
activescott 3y ago
Talking about how bad a war is seems always misleading to me. Does "Israel retaliated with a bombing campaign" convey that in the last 32 days since October 7, 10,328 people were killed in Gaza. Does it convey that 67% of those killed were children and women? It is all barbaric.
- nailer 3y ago
  It also doesn't convey that those people being used by Hamas as human shields, Hamas told Palestinians not to evacuate, Hamas shot people that did evacuate, and Hamas used IEDs on roads. https://www.instagram.com/p/CzWbutetwys/ https://www.instagram.com/p/CzWbutetwys/ That said, it's reasonable to suggest Israel should have done a better job of protecting Palestinians from Hamas, as they are now doing: https://twitter.com/hilzfuld/status/1722306279861809659 https://twitter.com/hilzfuld/status/1722306279861809659
  - PolygonSheep 3y ago
    > Israel should have done a better job of protecting Palestinians from Hamas, as they are now doing: They've protected over 10,000 Palestinians so far!
    - nailer 3y ago
      Stats from the Gaza ministry of health are from Hamas. Secondly it’s hamas that uses civilian infrastructure to hide behind.
      - defrost 3y ago
        UNICEF defends accuracy of Gaza death toll as horror unfolds in ravaged enclave https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/07/world/gaza-death-toll-accuracy-unicef-intl-hnk/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/07/world/gaza-death-toll-acc... A UNICEF spokesperson has defended the death toll being reported out of Gaza, saying the organization’s figures had historically matched those of the Hamas-controlled Gazan health ministry. UNICEF spokesperson James Elder said on Tuesday the organization’s estimates had closely aligned with the ministry’s in the past, which gave him confidence in the current figures. He told CNN’s Julia Chatterley: “Our numbers were within a couple of percent of that, almost identical. We don’t have that concern based on past history.” > it’s hamas that uses civilian infrastructure to hide behind. Would you approve of the IDF bombing occupied Israeli apartments, schools, hospitals, etc if Hamas tunnelled under those? It's a ~ 4K children body count the IDF have racked up since the Hamas attack - is that a fair and considered response?
        nailer 3y ago
        That's nice re: UNICEF. Frankly it's unlikely anybody knows the death count in Gaza - it won't be zero, but any charity that has access to Gaza does so on behalf of Hamas and some (UNHCR) even directly fund Hamas. > Would you approve of the IDF bombing occupied Israeli apartments, schools, hospitals, etc if Hamas tunnelled under those? It's unlikely that Israelis would let a terrorist organisation operate our of a school or hospital. But yes, the IDF would evacuate the area before engaging just like they do with Gaza.
k99x55 3y ago
How many of those civilians were ex-military (all?), how many were settlers in stolen land? If you knowingly occupy someones stolen land you are not that innocent are you? And, Israel does not have the right to defend itself. Israel is the settler aggressor. The biggest terrorist is Israel. Israel is a settler colonial racist Apartheid regime.
- nailer 3y ago
  > how many were settlers in stolen land? Zero. Jews were in Israel under: Babylonians, Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Crusaders, Ottomans and the British. Look at the Al Aqsa mosque. See the giant thing underneath it? Before 1948, they purchased land from Ottomans. After 1948 Arab states kept declaring war on Israel and losing, making Israel larger.
  - activescott 3y ago
    This is a bit more complicated. Jews were in Palestine before 1948 and lived alongside Arabs in peace throughout the Ottoman Empire. They often fled persecution in Europe to the Ottoman Empire: https://en.wikipedia.orgt/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ottoman_Empire https://en.wikipedia.orgt/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ot... The historical timeline of Palestine leading up to and since 1948 is https://www.un.org/unispal/historical-timeline/ https://www.un.org/unispal/historical-timeline/ The timeline is good overall, but the four-minute video there is a good summary. A direct link to the video is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBjMbe24Vu0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBjMbe24Vu0.
    - nailer 3y ago
      > lived alongside Arabs in peace throughout the Ottoman Empire No. Multiple violent confrontations. You can find ample sources for this. Partition into jewish and Arab states was to avoid bloodshed. > The historical timeline of Palestine leading up to and since 1948 This is a bizarre document that starts in 1885, at minimum you would start about 136AD with the renaming of Israel to Philestinea by the Romans. But then again, the UN is famously run by various tinpot dictators that raise more resolutions against Israel than themselves.
nikolay 3y ago
An unproportional savegery response to a savegery makes you even a bigger savage! Sorry, but the world is not deaf and blind! Keep supporting the genocide and thus you're digging Israel into a deeper hole! The young people are all against Israel's genocidal apartheid - and these are the future voters! Israel with all its high-tech cannot manipulate the narrative!
- nailer 3y ago
  > Keep supporting the genocide Israel has 2.1M arabs, the descendents of the arabs that stayed after 1948 when arab states declared war on Israel. Israeli arabs have better lives than in any Arab state. They can vote for their own leaders, be elected to parliament, be of a different sect of Islam without concern for their safety, leave Islam without concern for their safety, be gay without concern for their safety, and serve in the IDF. Arabs in Qatar and the UAE and west bank and Gaza wish they had the freedoms of Arabs in Israel. Ask any Jewish person in Tel Aviv and they'll tell you the best Hummus in town is actually not in Tel Aviv, it's at Abu Hassan in Yafo (the smaller one near the coast).
  - nikolay 3y ago
    That's absolutely false. Arabs in Israel do not have the same rights as Israeli Jews and I'm not talking about Palestinians.
    - poisonarena 3y ago
      thats absolutely false, I have lived in haifa for years and nearly all my friends are arabs and druze.. they have the exact same rights as I do, only they dont have to go to the army (though some choose to !)
    - nailer 3y ago
      Be more specific. I can’t respond if you can’t identify what is false.
      - 3y ago
paulddraper 3y ago
> launched an attack Doesn't sound like euphemism to me. What kind of international attack is the nice kind of attack??

RcouF1uZ4gsC 3y ago

[flagged]

creer 3y ago

https://archive.ph/QN1fM https://archive.ph/QN1fM

serialthrilla2 3y ago

[flagged]

mpalmer 3y ago
The meta-disagreement is whether the "now" is all that matters, or whether Israel doing all that is necessary to recover the hostages is a pretext to greater, more sustained Israeli control of Palestinian territory.
- nailer 3y ago
  Unsubstantiated word is the Hamas attack likely happened because Israel wanted Saudi Arabia to take control of Gaza.
nailer 3y ago
Likewise. People also seem to think the Palestinians all support Hamas, which uses the Palestinians as human shields. Gaza did vote for Hamas in 2006, but that was 18 years ago. https://x.com/JituChaudhary25/status/1720097411547500652 https://x.com/JituChaudhary25/status/1720097411547500652 Keep in mind Hamas kill Fatah and other opposition members, so speaking out against them is dangerous. But I have about 10 other videos of similar.
- paulddraper 3y ago
  Hamas polled at 53% support in 2021. [1] Just one data point, but provide contrary data if you have it. [1] https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87 https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8...
  - serialthrilla2 3y ago
    That's interesting and sad that they're polling so high. It makes me question what culpability a nation has with the actions of its government. If "let the politicians run politics" or (they're a mean mob so we don't risk putting up a fight) is the thought of the citizens and then a war is started, as civilians are we indemnified or responsible?

paulddraper 3y ago

> But workers looking to express support for Palestinians say they face hostility. Russians: "First time?"

unsubstantiated 3y ago
[flagged]

activescott 3y ago

Anyone else find it ironic that this post was flagged?