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The only problem is there’s no step in social media to activate people to put pressure on the government to reduce police abuse. I want stuff like cops who beat

The only problem is there’s no step in social media to activate people to put pressure on the government to reduce police abuse. I want stuff like cops who beat their significant others taken off the force. Cops sent to jail if they rape or sexually assault their detainees. I want a reversion to the legal precedent that cops have no duty to defend civilians from crime. But there’s no way to do this without large popular action,. Hell even with BLM mass protests, no city actually defunded the police!

nxm 3y ago
Cops do not get sent to jail if they rape or sexually assault their detainees?
- CuriousCosmic 3y ago
  In some cases no. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/albertsamaha/this-teenager-accused-two-on-duty-cops-of-rape-she-had-no https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/albertsamaha/this-teena...
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  Hah. There was a case a few years ago where a cop "had sex with" a female teen (minor but above age of consent) who was handcuffed and in custody. He argued it was consensual, and the court agreed. The sister reply has this stunning statement: > She had no idea she lived in one of 35 states where officers can claim a detainee consented. Why is any state allowing LEOs to have sex with detainees, "consensually" or otherwise?
  - jlokier 3y ago
    I find it even more stunning that there were two cops in the police van, and they both had sex with the handcuffed girl while on duty, confirmed by sperm DNA samples in the girl afterwards. Neither cop got any serious punishment, and this was due to their word against hers in court. If there had been in-van cameras or even just audio, it would almost certainly have corroborated her word as rape victim saying "no" repeatedly, or the cops' word that it was a fully consensual offer to have (presumably unprotected) sex with both cops in exchange for her freedom. (The cops' claim sounds like such a bizarre defence to me, because it obviously should be illegal to accept such an offer. But apparently it was allowed.)
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > Cops do not get sent to jail if they rape or sexually assault their detainees? Frequently, no, because of pro-cop bias among (in what is simultaneously approximately the order of both strength of pro-cop bias and temporal order in which the biases apply to a case) cops (who are the first line investigators of crime), prosecutors (who's involvement is necessary for criminal charges), judges, and the public (i.e., the jury pool.)
  - jimbob45 3y ago
    Frequently, no, because of pro-cop bias among cops, prosecutors, judges, and the public So...everyone?
    - dragonwriter 3y ago
      The public in aggregate, yes, but not everyone individually, no.
CuriousCosmic 3y ago
So do direct action. Go join an org and demonstrate. That's the only way change happens.
resters 3y ago
I strongly agree, what you are describing is what is needed. I'm also concerned by the chilling effects we've seen lately on speech, starting with attacks on press freedom by government, but also aided by social media firms cooperating in censorship, and more recently the canceling of people who do things like protest in favor of the Palestinians, etc. We can observe the extent of status quo social media censorship when we see how much "subversive" but legal and helpful/benign content that is popular on TikTok never got legs on other platforms.
kmeisthax 3y ago
There were cities that literally defunded the police. More accurately, they deliberately engineered a crime crisis to discredit police reform activism under the common misunderstanding that "defund the police" means "I want the Purge" and not "stop sending cops out to shoot at homeless people in a Wendy's drive-thru". The thing about cops getting taken off the force is that it actually happens fairly commonly. The term of art in law enforcement for them is "gypsy[0] cops", because they jump from force to force whenever they do something that attracts media attention. Ironically, they are enabled by literally defunded police departments who are looking for someone they can pay peanuts to go issue traffic tickets all day. The really abusive bullies are their perfect employee, at least until they cause a media stir and have to be fired to save face. In all these cases, there actually is active pressure from people to reform and it does go to the people that matter. The problem is that those people have a vested interest in keeping policing brutal, and they are also rhetorically slippery. They will actively misinterpret your sloganeering, they will ignore your political writings and pamphlets, and generally seek to embarrass you until you go away. Less depressingly, I do recall a few cities[1] run by people with their heads on straight that did what the "defund the police" people meant, not what they literally said. And it turns out that, given not-crooked people in power implementing these things faithfully, it does work. The problem is entirely the people at the top making the decisions. What we need is not merely bottom-up pressure, but an explicit democratic mandate - i.e. infiltrating local government with competent politicians favorable to the cause. Also, maybe we should change the slogan. I vote for "Refund the Police", because it has a double-meaning: send back the violent interventions and fund non-violent programs instead. [0] Their words, not mine. For those unaware, in Europe this word is basically the N-word. [1] Whose names I frustratingly DO NOT REMEMBER
- gruez 3y ago
  >There were cities that literally defunded the police. More accurately, they deliberately engineered a crime crisis to discredit police reform activism under the common misunderstanding that "defund the police" means "I want the Purge" and not "stop sending cops out to shoot at homeless people in a Wendy's drive-thru". That might be the moderate opinion, but let's not pretend there were people unironically calling for the police to be abolished[1]. In this political environment, it's really hard to tell whether something is just a shitty slogan or something to be taken literally. Therefore I wouldn't put too much in your theory that police defundings were some bad faith attempts at interpretation. It's very plausible that they were implemented sincerely. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abol...

nxm 3y ago

Cops do not get sent to jail if they rape or sexually assault their detainees?

CuriousCosmic 3y ago
In some cases no. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/albertsamaha/this-teenager-accused-two-on-duty-cops-of-rape-she-had-no https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/albertsamaha/this-teena...
FireBeyond 3y ago
Hah. There was a case a few years ago where a cop "had sex with" a female teen (minor but above age of consent) who was handcuffed and in custody. He argued it was consensual, and the court agreed. The sister reply has this stunning statement: > She had no idea she lived in one of 35 states where officers can claim a detainee consented. Why is any state allowing LEOs to have sex with detainees, "consensually" or otherwise?
- jlokier 3y ago
  I find it even more stunning that there were two cops in the police van, and they both had sex with the handcuffed girl while on duty, confirmed by sperm DNA samples in the girl afterwards. Neither cop got any serious punishment, and this was due to their word against hers in court. If there had been in-van cameras or even just audio, it would almost certainly have corroborated her word as rape victim saying "no" repeatedly, or the cops' word that it was a fully consensual offer to have (presumably unprotected) sex with both cops in exchange for her freedom. (The cops' claim sounds like such a bizarre defence to me, because it obviously should be illegal to accept such an offer. But apparently it was allowed.)
dragonwriter 3y ago
> Cops do not get sent to jail if they rape or sexually assault their detainees? Frequently, no, because of pro-cop bias among (in what is simultaneously approximately the order of both strength of pro-cop bias and temporal order in which the biases apply to a case) cops (who are the first line investigators of crime), prosecutors (who's involvement is necessary for criminal charges), judges, and the public (i.e., the jury pool.)
- jimbob45 3y ago
  Frequently, no, because of pro-cop bias among cops, prosecutors, judges, and the public So...everyone?
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    The public in aggregate, yes, but not everyone individually, no.

CuriousCosmic 3y ago

So do direct action. Go join an org and demonstrate. That's the only way change happens.

resters 3y ago

I strongly agree, what you are describing is what is needed. I'm also concerned by the chilling effects we've seen lately on speech, starting with attacks on press freedom by government, but also aided by social media firms cooperating in censorship, and more recently the canceling of people who do things like protest in favor of the Palestinians, etc. We can observe the extent of status quo social media censorship when we see how much "subversive" but legal and helpful/benign content that is popular on TikTok never got legs on other platforms.

kmeisthax 3y ago

There were cities that literally defunded the police. More accurately, they deliberately engineered a crime crisis to discredit police reform activism under the common misunderstanding that "defund the police" means "I want the Purge" and not "stop sending cops out to shoot at homeless people in a Wendy's drive-thru". The thing about cops getting taken off the force is that it actually happens fairly commonly. The term of art in law enforcement for them is "gypsy[0] cops", because they jump from force to force whenever they do something that attracts media attention. Ironically, they are enabled by literally defunded police departments who are looking for someone they can pay peanuts to go issue traffic tickets all day. The really abusive bullies are their perfect employee, at least until they cause a media stir and have to be fired to save face. In all these cases, there actually is active pressure from people to reform and it does go to the people that matter. The problem is that those people have a vested interest in keeping policing brutal, and they are also rhetorically slippery. They will actively misinterpret your sloganeering, they will ignore your political writings and pamphlets, and generally seek to embarrass you until you go away. Less depressingly, I do recall a few cities[1] run by people with their heads on straight that did what the "defund the police" people meant, not what they literally said. And it turns out that, given not-crooked people in power implementing these things faithfully, it does work. The problem is entirely the people at the top making the decisions. What we need is not merely bottom-up pressure, but an explicit democratic mandate - i.e. infiltrating local government with competent politicians favorable to the cause. Also, maybe we should change the slogan. I vote for "Refund the Police", because it has a double-meaning: send back the violent interventions and fund non-violent programs instead. [0] Their words, not mine. For those unaware, in Europe this word is basically the N-word. [1] Whose names I frustratingly DO NOT REMEMBER

gruez 3y ago
>There were cities that literally defunded the police. More accurately, they deliberately engineered a crime crisis to discredit police reform activism under the common misunderstanding that "defund the police" means "I want the Purge" and not "stop sending cops out to shoot at homeless people in a Wendy's drive-thru". That might be the moderate opinion, but let's not pretend there were people unironically calling for the police to be abolished[1]. In this political environment, it's really hard to tell whether something is just a shitty slogan or something to be taken literally. Therefore I wouldn't put too much in your theory that police defundings were some bad faith attempts at interpretation. It's very plausible that they were implemented sincerely. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abol...