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> may result in excessive bodily harm and weeks of incarceration It won't, because that's exactly what this law prevents.

Centigonal 3y ago
But... who enforces that law?
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  Contempt of court against a federal district court order? A hacked off (in the case of any actual violation) federal judge with pretty broad direct power, U.S. Marshals,.and, potentially, the applicable US Attorney’s office, FBI, and the rest of thr federal criminal law enforcement apparatus for any criminal contempt or other federal crime involved.
woodruffw 3y ago
The law has historically not been a significant concern for the NYPD. Put another way: this is a "win" in the sense that there's judicial recognition of the problem, but attempting to test this law is still going to get you harassed and potentially arrested. The question then becomes whether 24+ hours in jail is worth ultimately being vindicated in court. Compare recent attempts to get the NYPD to stop parking illegally[1][2]. [1]: https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2023/01/23/tipster-sues-nypd-for-harassment-over-311-complaints-about-illegal-parking https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2023/01/23/tipster-sues-nypd-for... [2]: https://hellgatenyc.com/nypd-try-to-illegally-park-then-ticket-cyclist https://hellgatenyc.com/nypd-try-to-illegally-park-then-tick...
- TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
  Also in many jurisdictions, arrest records are public and cannot be expunged… even if charges are never filed!
  - KennyBlanken 3y ago
    And many people have employers who would not tolerate a zero-notice day of absence, can't afford the fees for a criminal defense attorney (and public defenders are so backed up they're nearly useless), and so on.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > question then becomes whether 24+ hours in jail is worth ultimately being vindicated in court With a pattern of violations, a civil case for damages emerges. (With an arrest, there is particularised harm in a way parking violations do not tend to create.)
  - woodruffw 3y ago
    > With a pattern of violations, a civil case for damages emerges. Agreed, although this is predicated on being willing to put up with arrest. In effect, the cost is asymmetric: to have my civil rights enshrined here, I'd have to be willing to go to jail a handful of times, miss work, suffer physical and verbal abuse at the hands of an agency that rapes detainees[1], etc. All for a judge to potentially grant me damages. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abner_Louima https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abner_Louima
hn_version_0023 3y ago
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contravariant 3y ago
You mean like the constitution and two other laws prevented it?
mangosteenjuice 3y ago
https://signalscv.com/2023/11/lasd-statement-forthcoming-on-trio-of-employee-suicides/ https://signalscv.com/2023/11/lasd-statement-forthcoming-on-... Do you think anyone is going to be held responsible for this?
peterpost2 3y ago
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deleted 3y ago
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Centigonal 3y ago

But... who enforces that law?

dragonwriter 3y ago
Contempt of court against a federal district court order? A hacked off (in the case of any actual violation) federal judge with pretty broad direct power, U.S. Marshals,.and, potentially, the applicable US Attorney’s office, FBI, and the rest of thr federal criminal law enforcement apparatus for any criminal contempt or other federal crime involved.

woodruffw 3y ago

The law has historically not been a significant concern for the NYPD. Put another way: this is a "win" in the sense that there's judicial recognition of the problem, but attempting to test this law is still going to get you harassed and potentially arrested. The question then becomes whether 24+ hours in jail is worth ultimately being vindicated in court. Compare recent attempts to get the NYPD to stop parking illegally[1][2]. [1]: https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2023/01/23/tipster-sues-nypd-for-harassment-over-311-complaints-about-illegal-parking https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2023/01/23/tipster-sues-nypd-for... [2]: https://hellgatenyc.com/nypd-try-to-illegally-park-then-ticket-cyclist https://hellgatenyc.com/nypd-try-to-illegally-park-then-tick...

TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
Also in many jurisdictions, arrest records are public and cannot be expunged… even if charges are never filed!
- KennyBlanken 3y ago
  And many people have employers who would not tolerate a zero-notice day of absence, can't afford the fees for a criminal defense attorney (and public defenders are so backed up they're nearly useless), and so on.
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> question then becomes whether 24+ hours in jail is worth ultimately being vindicated in court With a pattern of violations, a civil case for damages emerges. (With an arrest, there is particularised harm in a way parking violations do not tend to create.)
- woodruffw 3y ago
  > With a pattern of violations, a civil case for damages emerges. Agreed, although this is predicated on being willing to put up with arrest. In effect, the cost is asymmetric: to have my civil rights enshrined here, I'd have to be willing to go to jail a handful of times, miss work, suffer physical and verbal abuse at the hands of an agency that rapes detainees[1], etc. All for a judge to potentially grant me damages. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abner_Louima https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abner_Louima

hn_version_0023 3y ago

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deleted 3y ago

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contravariant 3y ago

You mean like the constitution and two other laws prevented it?

mangosteenjuice 3y ago

https://signalscv.com/2023/11/lasd-statement-forthcoming-on-trio-of-employee-suicides/ https://signalscv.com/2023/11/lasd-statement-forthcoming-on-... Do you think anyone is going to be held responsible for this?

peterpost2 3y ago

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deleted 3y ago

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