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How about we have a talk about Google chat. I don’t remember Google announcing it would be opened up. Or does their requirement only apply to successful service

How about we have a talk about Google chat. I don’t remember Google announcing it would be opened up. Or does their requirement only apply to successful services?

jkaplowitz 3y ago
Yes, these EU rules only apply to services with a European user count above a certain threshold, and therefore not to unsuccessful services. The product currently named Google Chat is Google’s replacement for Google Hangouts for the purpose of Internet-based individual and group asynchronous chat purposes, that’s (badly) attempting to compete with Slack and Microsoft Teams rather than iMessage. Google’s iMessage competitor is already open for interoperability, supporting not only SMS (like iMessage) but also the RCS standard for rich individual and group asynchronous messages, which Apple could add RCS to iMessage but doesn’t want to. So, within the product space in which iMessage is the US market leader (and which WhatsApp leads in Europe), Google already is open and interoperable like the EU would want, but Apple isn’t. In this comment I’m not discussing motivations or making a judgment (beyond agreeing that Google Chat isn’t very successful), just describing facts. Disclosure: I used to work for Google, but not for more than 8.5 years now, and I never worked on or set policy for any of the products I’m discussing in this comment. I’m speaking here only on my own behalf, not on Google’s, nor relying on any Google-internal information for what I’ve said above.
- sbuk 3y ago
  Is the encryption extension open? Who will manage message transport? Can they guarantee the near zero spam iMessage users currently enjoy?
  - jkaplowitz 3y ago
    To the best of my knowledge, Google has published a paper or two about their end to end encryption extension but not release source code or implementable specs or APIs. But that is irrelevant for purposes of complying with this EU law - Google Messages can interoperate with other RCS clients without end to end encryption, which should satisfy the law. Setting aside that extension for a moment, I do know that RCS has more sender verification / anti-fraud messages than SMS, is not inherently run or managed by Google except as one interoperable server deployment among many, is encrypted in transit even without end to end encryption, and is more widely supported than you’d think across carriers and OEMs in many countries. Apple is the biggest holdout.
- anticensor 3y ago
  iMessage is also interoperable with SMS and MMS.
  - jkaplowitz 3y ago
    Right, I mentioned that about SMS but forgot to say the same for MMS. Thanks for the clarification. iMessage does not however support RCS, which is the relevant detail here.

How about we have a talk about Google chat. I don’t remember Google announcing it would be opened up. Or does their requirement only apply to successful services?

jkaplowitz 3y ago

Yes, these EU rules only apply to services with a European user count above a certain threshold, and therefore not to unsuccessful services. The product currently named Google Chat is Google’s replacement for Google Hangouts for the purpose of Internet-based individual and group asynchronous chat purposes, that’s (badly) attempting to compete with Slack and Microsoft Teams rather than iMessage. Google’s iMessage competitor is already open for interoperability, supporting not only SMS (like iMessage) but also the RCS standard for rich individual and group asynchronous messages, which Apple could add RCS to iMessage but doesn’t want to. So, within the product space in which iMessage is the US market leader (and which WhatsApp leads in Europe), Google already is open and interoperable like the EU would want, but Apple isn’t. In this comment I’m not discussing motivations or making a judgment (beyond agreeing that Google Chat isn’t very successful), just describing facts. Disclosure: I used to work for Google, but not for more than 8.5 years now, and I never worked on or set policy for any of the products I’m discussing in this comment. I’m speaking here only on my own behalf, not on Google’s, nor relying on any Google-internal information for what I’ve said above.

sbuk 3y ago
Is the encryption extension open? Who will manage message transport? Can they guarantee the near zero spam iMessage users currently enjoy?
- jkaplowitz 3y ago
  To the best of my knowledge, Google has published a paper or two about their end to end encryption extension but not release source code or implementable specs or APIs. But that is irrelevant for purposes of complying with this EU law - Google Messages can interoperate with other RCS clients without end to end encryption, which should satisfy the law. Setting aside that extension for a moment, I do know that RCS has more sender verification / anti-fraud messages than SMS, is not inherently run or managed by Google except as one interoperable server deployment among many, is encrypted in transit even without end to end encryption, and is more widely supported than you’d think across carriers and OEMs in many countries. Apple is the biggest holdout.
anticensor 3y ago
iMessage is also interoperable with SMS and MMS.
- jkaplowitz 3y ago
  Right, I mentioned that about SMS but forgot to say the same for MMS. Thanks for the clarification. iMessage does not however support RCS, which is the relevant detail here.