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And yet they cost a ton more. It is madness and incredibly frustrating.

by eppp 3y ago

huytersd 3y ago
They cost about 20% more, for now. That’s not a ton considering you can break even on gas alone in 2-3 years, depending on how you drive.
- Glyptodon 3y ago
  I can't see how. New to new, a cheap ICE economy car can still run low $20s and your total fuel costs over 3 years will probably be under $2k. And even a cheaper EV like a Chevy Bolt won't make up the difference. It seems like the gap only gets worse when comparing higher up the price curve hybrids to their EV cousins.
  - p_j_w 3y ago
    They also have vastly lower maintenance and repair costs. Real analyses of this stuff has been done and EVs win every time.
    - Glyptodon 3y ago
      I totally believe this if the vehicles have similar initial costs, and I can imagine that if the EV has higher re-sale value used, it might help too. But I have a hard time seeing how you can make up the price difference between a relatively reliable compact hybrid and its EV version - take a Kia Niro (just because offhand I know it comes in EV and Hybrid): Hybrid is like $27k, EV is like $40k (though hybrid used to be more like $24k). If you own for 10 years what's going to eat that $13k difference? Just better resale in 10 years? Oil change once a year, a few medium repairs, and cost of gas vs electricity don't get you there.
  - QuarterReptile 3y ago
    Tempering my sibling comment, I could believe they probably have lower maintenance needs on more expensive stuff, but that's precisely who you're not selling with lower cost of ownership. I'm with you: my 10 year old car cost me 17k, and in the past 10 years I have spent no more than 7k on fuel. I've done annual oil changes, replaced a set of tires, and replaced a pump for windshield washer fluid one time. My electric co. has a tool for estimating your monthly fuel savings: $15 monthly for me. That's probably the cost of food my toddler smashes up and throws on the floor in the same period.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    At 13,000mi/yr (average US mileage), 30MPG, $4/gal, that's $1,733.33/yr. Same mileage, 3.5mi/kWh, $0.12/kWh, that's $445.71/yr.
    - Glyptodon 3y ago
      National average electric cost is above $0.12 kWh, I think closer to $0.16, on top of that I think tiered pricing is common. And hybrids often beat 30 mpg. For a car where electric is $40k and hybrid is $27k like a Kia Niro, it looks like your numbers would produce a payback period on the electric close to 10 years, but longer the less you drive. But that doesn't even get to including potential returns on the $13k saved at the beginning.
- eppp 3y ago
  It is a ton more when the parent states how much cheaper and easier they are to manufacture. 100x fewer parts and yet they cost more? How does that make sense.
  - kube-system 3y ago
    One of the parts is rather expensive
  - deelowe 3y ago
    Because the resources to make batteries are expensive to mine and refine... But come on, is it really that hard to believe? Look up the internals of an ICE and automatic transmission and compare those to an electric motor and single stage gear box. We could debate over whether a battery pack is a single part or many, but still, those are completely potted and welded assemblies. Failures outside of normal wear are rare.

And yet they cost a ton more. It is madness and incredibly frustrating.

by eppp 3y ago

And yet they cost a ton more. It is madness and incredibly frustrating.

They cost about 20% more, for now. That’s not a ton considering you can break even on gas alone in 2-3 years, depending on how you drive.

Glyptodon 3y ago
I can't see how. New to new, a cheap ICE economy car can still run low $20s and your total fuel costs over 3 years will probably be under $2k. And even a cheaper EV like a Chevy Bolt won't make up the difference. It seems like the gap only gets worse when comparing higher up the price curve hybrids to their EV cousins.
- p_j_w 3y ago
  They also have vastly lower maintenance and repair costs. Real analyses of this stuff has been done and EVs win every time.
  - Glyptodon 3y ago
    I totally believe this if the vehicles have similar initial costs, and I can imagine that if the EV has higher re-sale value used, it might help too. But I have a hard time seeing how you can make up the price difference between a relatively reliable compact hybrid and its EV version - take a Kia Niro (just because offhand I know it comes in EV and Hybrid): Hybrid is like $27k, EV is like $40k (though hybrid used to be more like $24k). If you own for 10 years what's going to eat that $13k difference? Just better resale in 10 years? Oil change once a year, a few medium repairs, and cost of gas vs electricity don't get you there.
- QuarterReptile 3y ago
  Tempering my sibling comment, I could believe they probably have lower maintenance needs on more expensive stuff, but that's precisely who you're not selling with lower cost of ownership. I'm with you: my 10 year old car cost me 17k, and in the past 10 years I have spent no more than 7k on fuel. I've done annual oil changes, replaced a set of tires, and replaced a pump for windshield washer fluid one time. My electric co. has a tool for estimating your monthly fuel savings: $15 monthly for me. That's probably the cost of food my toddler smashes up and throws on the floor in the same period.
- vel0city 3y ago
  At 13,000mi/yr (average US mileage), 30MPG, $4/gal, that's $1,733.33/yr. Same mileage, 3.5mi/kWh, $0.12/kWh, that's $445.71/yr.
  - Glyptodon 3y ago
    National average electric cost is above $0.12 kWh, I think closer to $0.16, on top of that I think tiered pricing is common. And hybrids often beat 30 mpg. For a car where electric is $40k and hybrid is $27k like a Kia Niro, it looks like your numbers would produce a payback period on the electric close to 10 years, but longer the less you drive. But that doesn't even get to including potential returns on the $13k saved at the beginning.
eppp 3y ago
It is a ton more when the parent states how much cheaper and easier they are to manufacture. 100x fewer parts and yet they cost more? How does that make sense.
- kube-system 3y ago
  One of the parts is rather expensive
- deelowe 3y ago
  Because the resources to make batteries are expensive to mine and refine... But come on, is it really that hard to believe? Look up the internals of an ICE and automatic transmission and compare those to an electric motor and single stage gear box. We could debate over whether a battery pack is a single part or many, but still, those are completely potted and welded assemblies. Failures outside of normal wear are rare.