5 ms·

note that this type of action is illegal in the united states

by ruined 3y ago

gedy 3y ago
This is to force unionization of Tesla?
- eddtries 3y ago
  It’s to force Tesla to sign the collective bargaining agreement for mechanics, guaranteeing a minimum salary/holiday allowance/pension
- VoxPelli 3y ago
  It’s to force Tesla to respect the agreed upon model of the Swedish labor market. Instead of having the government decide everything we let the employer organizations and the unions negotiate deals that are adapted to the needs of the sector they are in. The employers and workers knows much better what is needed to make companies and workers flourish and giving them the freedom to negotiate without having the government meddling with it – that has been very beneficial to Sweden. In this agreement it has been understood that employers respect the strikes of workers and doesn’t replace striking workers with other workers. Now Tesla is actively trying to circumvent the strikes and that is pretty much unheard of here and threatens to set a precedent that threatens the entire model of the Swedish labor market. That’s why there are these strong sympathy strikes now – as Tesla responded to the first strike by attacking the very foundation of our employer-worker relation here in Sweden. So it’s more than just forcing unionization, it’s about forcing Tesla to respect the Swedish labor market and how we collectively bargain here.
toomuchtodo 3y ago
Can you provide a citation demonstrating evidence of this assertion (it is a very general statement)? You might be referring to the Taft-Hartley act [1], which there are ways around. The NLRB also has a great resource on the topic [2]. It is true there are situations where you cannot strike, which labor organization needs to be mindful of. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft%E2%80%93Hartley_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft%E2%80%93Hartley_Act [2] https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/nlra-and-the-right-to-strike https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-right...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- foobarian 3y ago
  To pick one of the examples above, could the USPS legally help out the strike by selectively rejecting packages going to/from Tesla addresses? My guess would be it would need to be a bottom up organization breaking company rules, probably isolated to some regions. Then again unions and striking was illegal during robber baron times too, but not necessarily immoral.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Indeed, there is nuance between outright illegal and bending the rules or taking actions that are effectively a strike without outright striking. Determine the desired outcome, seek a legal opinion from counsel, and build your strategy backwards from that. Perhaps you don't strike, but slow down, call out, whatever. "Are we on strike or we just collectively having an off day?" In this specific example, if people like Elon can break the law without repercussions, it seems disingenuous to fault workers attempting to do the same (depending on where the actions fall between bending and breaking any specific law) to protect their rights, compensation, and working arrangements considering they're where they actual value comes from. Tesla is afraid of the precedent of labor having a role in their management and operations decisions (because Elon demands operating from a position of power against all), but they are fighting a losing battle (Sean Fein and the UAW in the US [1], incredibly high support of unions in the under 30 cohort in the US [2] [3] [4], etc). > And among those on the frontlines are the nation's youngest workers leading the renewed push for labour unions. Gen Z is, according to the Center for American Progress, "the most pro-union generation alive today". > "I think there's a growing understanding that if you have a job, you need a union," says Jaz Brisack. The now-26-year-old was one of the earliest leaders of union efforts at Starbucks in Buffalo, New York, in 2021. [1] https://www.thestreet.com/electric-vehicles/uaw-president-shawn-fain-anti-union-tesla-chief-elon-musk-cant-keep-his-auto-union-out https://www.thestreet.com/electric-vehicles/uaw-president-sh... [2] https://www.americanprogress.org/press/release-gen-z-is-the-most-pro-union-generation-new-cap-analysis-finds/ https://www.americanprogress.org/press/release-gen-z-is-the-... [3] https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20230831-the-gen-zers-leading-a-new-pro-union-push https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20230831-the-gen-zers-l... [4] https://www.npr.org/2023/04/11/1169314853/union-rutgers-strike-gen-z-labor-work-workforce-starbucks-organizing https://www.npr.org/2023/04/11/1169314853/union-rutgers-stri...
ajhurliman 3y ago
Actually, this would be considered a “secondary boycott” which is illegal in the US: “Secondary boycotts: These are strikes that are directed at someone other than the strikers’ employer.”
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- bcrosby95 3y ago
  I guess only corporations, and not unions, are people.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    Unions mostly are also corporations.
    - VoxPelli 3y ago
      They are non-profits?
      - dragonwriter 3y ago
        Generally (most non-profits are also corporations, though other forms are possible.)
lefstathiou 3y ago
Mass coordinated boycotts by unrelated parties is severe market manipulation imo. Unions receive special status under law, this takes it too far.
- p_j_w 3y ago
  Mass coordinated boycotts aren't market manipulation, they're the real market in action.
  - aaomidi 3y ago
    But no! They hurt the owner class so it’s bad!
- mrmanner 3y ago
  Some countries legislate minimum wages. Now that’s some market manipulation. Strong unions working together are a small price to pay to keep the government from interfering.
- croes 3y ago
  Unrelated parties? I think the same nationality makes them pretty related.
- rsynnott 3y ago
  _Market manipulation_? How on earth do you figure that?
dontlaugh 3y ago
Sadly this is correct. Same in the UK too. It doesn't stop some unions from striking anyway, commonly called wildcat strikes.
delfinom 3y ago
"O no, the mail fell behind the shelf and we couldn't find it, we'll try again tomorrow and hopefully it doesn't fall behind the shelf again" The benefit of a union, is nobody will say otherwise ;)
- _yb2s 3y ago
  So the benefit of a union is it that it encourages people to address conflicts in a childish and passive aggressive way that also causes collateral damage to uninvolved 3rd parties? I'm not running a business or anything, but if someone uses shady tactics like that against me, any negotiation is over on principle, regardless of the costs to both of us.
  - vincnetas 3y ago
    Do you want to read about the way Italians strike? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work-to-rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work-to-rule aka Italian strike
TraspSE 3y ago
You also have minimum wages regulated by law. In Sweden, both strikes and minimum wages are regulated by the agreement Tesla is refusing to sign. The union wants regulation, that's the whole point. Tesla only have themselves to blame for any action that stems from the decision to not sign a collective agreement. PS. 90% of Swedish labor is covered by collective agreements that has been hammered out over the last century - it is custom to sign it and no one has brought in scabs for almost a century during a strike, forcing unions to step up their game. As Tesla threatens the Swedish model, it is a concern for all labor.
3seashells 3y ago
Yeah and look how rundown it got them..
vincnetas 3y ago
And it's sad that sympathy strike is illegal in some countries. It's like being able to defend your own family, but being denied to help any other not directly related person. Like i see a women is being robed, but since she is not my wife i can't intervene and only can observe.

note that this type of action is illegal in the united states

by ruined 3y ago

note that this type of action is illegal in the united states

gedy 3y ago

This is to force unionization of Tesla?

eddtries 3y ago
It’s to force Tesla to sign the collective bargaining agreement for mechanics, guaranteeing a minimum salary/holiday allowance/pension
VoxPelli 3y ago
It’s to force Tesla to respect the agreed upon model of the Swedish labor market. Instead of having the government decide everything we let the employer organizations and the unions negotiate deals that are adapted to the needs of the sector they are in. The employers and workers knows much better what is needed to make companies and workers flourish and giving them the freedom to negotiate without having the government meddling with it – that has been very beneficial to Sweden. In this agreement it has been understood that employers respect the strikes of workers and doesn’t replace striking workers with other workers. Now Tesla is actively trying to circumvent the strikes and that is pretty much unheard of here and threatens to set a precedent that threatens the entire model of the Swedish labor market. That’s why there are these strong sympathy strikes now – as Tesla responded to the first strike by attacking the very foundation of our employer-worker relation here in Sweden. So it’s more than just forcing unionization, it’s about forcing Tesla to respect the Swedish labor market and how we collectively bargain here.

toomuchtodo 3y ago

Can you provide a citation demonstrating evidence of this assertion (it is a very general statement)? You might be referring to the Taft-Hartley act [1], which there are ways around. The NLRB also has a great resource on the topic [2]. It is true there are situations where you cannot strike, which labor organization needs to be mindful of. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft%E2%80%93Hartley_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft%E2%80%93Hartley_Act [2] https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/nlra-and-the-right-to-strike https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-right...

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
foobarian 3y ago
To pick one of the examples above, could the USPS legally help out the strike by selectively rejecting packages going to/from Tesla addresses? My guess would be it would need to be a bottom up organization breaking company rules, probably isolated to some regions. Then again unions and striking was illegal during robber baron times too, but not necessarily immoral.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Indeed, there is nuance between outright illegal and bending the rules or taking actions that are effectively a strike without outright striking. Determine the desired outcome, seek a legal opinion from counsel, and build your strategy backwards from that. Perhaps you don't strike, but slow down, call out, whatever. "Are we on strike or we just collectively having an off day?" In this specific example, if people like Elon can break the law without repercussions, it seems disingenuous to fault workers attempting to do the same (depending on where the actions fall between bending and breaking any specific law) to protect their rights, compensation, and working arrangements considering they're where they actual value comes from. Tesla is afraid of the precedent of labor having a role in their management and operations decisions (because Elon demands operating from a position of power against all), but they are fighting a losing battle (Sean Fein and the UAW in the US [1], incredibly high support of unions in the under 30 cohort in the US [2] [3] [4], etc). > And among those on the frontlines are the nation's youngest workers leading the renewed push for labour unions. Gen Z is, according to the Center for American Progress, "the most pro-union generation alive today". > "I think there's a growing understanding that if you have a job, you need a union," says Jaz Brisack. The now-26-year-old was one of the earliest leaders of union efforts at Starbucks in Buffalo, New York, in 2021. [1] https://www.thestreet.com/electric-vehicles/uaw-president-shawn-fain-anti-union-tesla-chief-elon-musk-cant-keep-his-auto-union-out https://www.thestreet.com/electric-vehicles/uaw-president-sh... [2] https://www.americanprogress.org/press/release-gen-z-is-the-most-pro-union-generation-new-cap-analysis-finds/ https://www.americanprogress.org/press/release-gen-z-is-the-... [3] https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20230831-the-gen-zers-leading-a-new-pro-union-push https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20230831-the-gen-zers-l... [4] https://www.npr.org/2023/04/11/1169314853/union-rutgers-strike-gen-z-labor-work-workforce-starbucks-organizing https://www.npr.org/2023/04/11/1169314853/union-rutgers-stri...

ajhurliman 3y ago

Actually, this would be considered a “secondary boycott” which is illegal in the US: “Secondary boycotts: These are strikes that are directed at someone other than the strikers’ employer.”

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
bcrosby95 3y ago
I guess only corporations, and not unions, are people.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  Unions mostly are also corporations.
  - VoxPelli 3y ago
    They are non-profits?
    - dragonwriter 3y ago
      Generally (most non-profits are also corporations, though other forms are possible.)

lefstathiou 3y ago

Mass coordinated boycotts by unrelated parties is severe market manipulation imo. Unions receive special status under law, this takes it too far.

p_j_w 3y ago
Mass coordinated boycotts aren't market manipulation, they're the real market in action.
- aaomidi 3y ago
  But no! They hurt the owner class so it’s bad!
mrmanner 3y ago
Some countries legislate minimum wages. Now that’s some market manipulation. Strong unions working together are a small price to pay to keep the government from interfering.
croes 3y ago
Unrelated parties? I think the same nationality makes them pretty related.
rsynnott 3y ago
_Market manipulation_? How on earth do you figure that?

dontlaugh 3y ago

Sadly this is correct. Same in the UK too. It doesn't stop some unions from striking anyway, commonly called wildcat strikes.

delfinom 3y ago

"O no, the mail fell behind the shelf and we couldn't find it, we'll try again tomorrow and hopefully it doesn't fall behind the shelf again" The benefit of a union, is nobody will say otherwise ;)

_yb2s 3y ago
So the benefit of a union is it that it encourages people to address conflicts in a childish and passive aggressive way that also causes collateral damage to uninvolved 3rd parties? I'm not running a business or anything, but if someone uses shady tactics like that against me, any negotiation is over on principle, regardless of the costs to both of us.
- vincnetas 3y ago
  Do you want to read about the way Italians strike? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work-to-rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work-to-rule aka Italian strike

TraspSE 3y ago

You also have minimum wages regulated by law. In Sweden, both strikes and minimum wages are regulated by the agreement Tesla is refusing to sign. The union wants regulation, that's the whole point. Tesla only have themselves to blame for any action that stems from the decision to not sign a collective agreement. PS. 90% of Swedish labor is covered by collective agreements that has been hammered out over the last century - it is custom to sign it and no one has brought in scabs for almost a century during a strike, forcing unions to step up their game. As Tesla threatens the Swedish model, it is a concern for all labor.

3seashells 3y ago

Yeah and look how rundown it got them..

vincnetas 3y ago

And it's sad that sympathy strike is illegal in some countries. It's like being able to defend your own family, but being denied to help any other not directly related person. Like i see a women is being robed, but since she is not my wife i can't intervene and only can observe.