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The feasibility of widespread bike usage doesn't just depend on density. It depends a lot on a region's weather, too. Amsterdam, for example, happens to have w

The feasibility of widespread bike usage doesn't just depend on density. It depends a lot on a region's weather, too. Amsterdam, for example, happens to have weather that's relatively compatible with biking, all throughout the year. On the other hand, for four to six months of the year, most areas of Canada, and even a good portion of the US, definitely don't. While a very small handful of people can handle biking when it's consistently -10 °C (14 °F) or colder out, possibly through 10 cm (4") or more of uncleared snow/slush, and possibly on ice, the vast majority of people can't and won't. The summer isn't necessarily any better. The cities in southern Ontario, for example, where many Canadians live, can become surprisingly hot and humid for weeks at a time, and biking isn't pleasant then. Given those conditions, people will definitely try to drive instead of biking.

bluefirebrand 3y ago
Even in perfect conditions there's a lot of reasons not to bike. Distances are more difficult, you can't bring someone with you, your carrying capacity is much smaller for shopping trips. It also just plain takes longer to get anywhere and people just don't like spending more time than they have to on errands.
- Mawr 3y ago
  - Ebikes let you cover great distances with little effort. - You can have someone ride on the backseat or in the cargo space of a cargo bike. [1] - You'd be hard pressed to come up with a shopping load that won't fit on a cargo bike. [1] Then there's the cost vs a car [2], which will likely make up for any inconvenience. Of course, you do need at least decent bike infrastructure for this to be realistic. [1]: https://youtu.be/rQhzEnWCgHA?t=470 https://youtu.be/rQhzEnWCgHA?t=470 [2]: https://youtu.be/rQhzEnWCgHA?t=321 https://youtu.be/rQhzEnWCgHA?t=321
  - bluGill 3y ago
    My car is a lot less effort that my ebike. And the car is faster as well. I ride my ebike for the trips too long for the acoustic bike, but there are still a lot of trips not in reasonable ebike range that I make.
    - Mawr 3y ago
      Sounds great, that's pretty much the goal - limiting car trips to the ones that actually require a car.
    - bumby 3y ago
      Hell, my motorcycle was enough of a hassle compared to my car to forgo riding it often. Wearing gear, packing my lunch and everything else for a days work into saddlebags, and dealing with the weather was a pain compared to just hopping in my car. It would be worse on a bicycle. At least in a car I can listen to a podcast without feeling like I'm making a tradeoff with safety.
  - bluefirebrand 3y ago
    Imo, you are no longer talking about cycling once you're talking about ebikes and other motorized vehicles. You're talking about convincing people to buy worse cars. Motorbikes and mopeds and scooters already exist and people largely don't choose them over cars. Changing it to "electric scooter" or ebike doesn't suddenly make it more appealing. And you certainly lose the "it's better for physical fitness and health" aspect once you're talking about motorized vehicles.
    - estebank 3y ago
      > And you certainly lose the "it's better for physical fitness and health" aspect once you're talking about motorized vehicles. > Because electric bikes are less physically demanding on joints and muscles, they not only bring in riders who might otherwise be inactive, but they also offer the opportunity for people to ride longer periods of time and go greater distances. That leads to more folks using e-bikes as an option for commuting or running errands. Although users won’t find themselves doing the sort of vigorous physical activity uphill mountain biking or even hot yoga entails, e-bike use has been shown to deliver the sort of moderate physical activity most doctors recommend. https://www.peopleforbikes.org/news/the-health-benefits-of-electric-bikes https://www.peopleforbikes.org/news/the-health-benefits-of-e... The exercise provided by ebikes when all things are equal is lower than regular bikes, but all things are not equal as people with ebikes tend to ride more day to day (on aggregate).
    - Mawr 3y ago
      This depends on legislation, but in a lot of countries ebikes that don't require pedaling are illegal. From personal experience, riding on an ebike still provides plenty of exercise, certainly more than the literally zero that you get when driving. In any case, I only brought up ebikes in the context of arduous journeys. Most people will not travel by ebike, they're too expensive. It's not about trying to persuade people in car-dependent places to go against the grain and bike everywhere. Rather, a network of bike infrastructure should be built, making biking a viable choice. In time biking would become normalized, nobody would need to be explicitly persuaded. After all, Americans don't drive everywhere because they've been convinced to, they do it because the ever-present car infrastructure makes it the most convenient option.
  - estebank 3y ago
    > You'd be hard pressed to come up with a shopping load that won't fit on a cargo bike. There's a side effect of car prevalence and land use in the US: everyone can be "expected" to have a car, so grocery shops tend to locate in places further away with cheaper land, which make it more convenient to make big shops, which require a car... I find that most Americans are not comfortable or even familiar with "I'll pop into the shop to buy milk a block away". Some neighborhoods in cities don't have local grocery shops. So if you're used to that built environment your first thought is "I can't fit a month's worth of food in a cargo bike, let alone ride for 10 miles!?" But if you propose letting a grocery shop in the neighborhood people think "parking, traffic and noise are gonna be terrible!"
    - Mawr 3y ago
      Yeah, I didn't want to get that far into it. For example, today I visited a store, my favourite coffee shop, a pharmacy, and two grocery stores in the span of a little more than an hour. I didn't even cycle, I just walked. The first store was 10 mins away from home. And that's an abnormal trip for me, I usually just pop into a grocery store on my walk home from work. If all I wanted to buy was milk, the overhead would be 5 mins.
    - bluefirebrand 3y ago
      I lived that "grocery store a block away" lifestyle and I still preferred to drive to get groceries. Not because I'm lazy, but because the nearby grocery store often cost more than double for the same items. And it was a grocery store, not a convenience store. Convenience stores were even worse.
Qwertious 3y ago
>On the other hand, for four to six months of the year, most areas of Canada, and even a good portion of the US, definitely don't. Myth. Why Canadians Can't Bike in the Winter (but Finnish people can): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU
- HDThoreaun 3y ago
  No, it's really not a myth. Biking in the winter is not fun unless you have completely enclosed paths. Finnish culture means that people do it anyway, but that wouldn't fly in American culture, no matter how good the snow removal and bike lanes are. I say this as someone who bikes year round in a northern city, the vast majority of people have no interest in biking in the cold.
bluGill 3y ago
In general the farther north you go in North America the more people on bikes you find. Most people do not bike when it is near freezing or below, there are a few.
dotcoma 3y ago
Calling Amsterdam an ideal city for cycling is a stretch. It's coldish, it rains quite a lot and it's very windy. Things would be a lot easier for people on bikes here in Milan, Italy where I live... except that they are not. It's not so safe during rush hour, and it's full of people who would rather take their stupid car instead of walking half a mile. Distances are larger in North America, but climate-wise people cycle more in NYC or in Minneapolis than they do in Atlanta or in Dallas. To sum it up: make cycling as safe as possible, and discourage car use, and especially car abuse -- picking up kids from school with an SUV, for example.

bluefirebrand 3y ago

Even in perfect conditions there's a lot of reasons not to bike. Distances are more difficult, you can't bring someone with you, your carrying capacity is much smaller for shopping trips. It also just plain takes longer to get anywhere and people just don't like spending more time than they have to on errands.

Mawr 3y ago
- Ebikes let you cover great distances with little effort. - You can have someone ride on the backseat or in the cargo space of a cargo bike. [1] - You'd be hard pressed to come up with a shopping load that won't fit on a cargo bike. [1] Then there's the cost vs a car [2], which will likely make up for any inconvenience. Of course, you do need at least decent bike infrastructure for this to be realistic. [1]: https://youtu.be/rQhzEnWCgHA?t=470 https://youtu.be/rQhzEnWCgHA?t=470 [2]: https://youtu.be/rQhzEnWCgHA?t=321 https://youtu.be/rQhzEnWCgHA?t=321
- bluGill 3y ago
  My car is a lot less effort that my ebike. And the car is faster as well. I ride my ebike for the trips too long for the acoustic bike, but there are still a lot of trips not in reasonable ebike range that I make.
  - Mawr 3y ago
    Sounds great, that's pretty much the goal - limiting car trips to the ones that actually require a car.
  - bumby 3y ago
    Hell, my motorcycle was enough of a hassle compared to my car to forgo riding it often. Wearing gear, packing my lunch and everything else for a days work into saddlebags, and dealing with the weather was a pain compared to just hopping in my car. It would be worse on a bicycle. At least in a car I can listen to a podcast without feeling like I'm making a tradeoff with safety.
- bluefirebrand 3y ago
  Imo, you are no longer talking about cycling once you're talking about ebikes and other motorized vehicles. You're talking about convincing people to buy worse cars. Motorbikes and mopeds and scooters already exist and people largely don't choose them over cars. Changing it to "electric scooter" or ebike doesn't suddenly make it more appealing. And you certainly lose the "it's better for physical fitness and health" aspect once you're talking about motorized vehicles.
  - estebank 3y ago
    > And you certainly lose the "it's better for physical fitness and health" aspect once you're talking about motorized vehicles. > Because electric bikes are less physically demanding on joints and muscles, they not only bring in riders who might otherwise be inactive, but they also offer the opportunity for people to ride longer periods of time and go greater distances. That leads to more folks using e-bikes as an option for commuting or running errands. Although users won’t find themselves doing the sort of vigorous physical activity uphill mountain biking or even hot yoga entails, e-bike use has been shown to deliver the sort of moderate physical activity most doctors recommend. https://www.peopleforbikes.org/news/the-health-benefits-of-electric-bikes https://www.peopleforbikes.org/news/the-health-benefits-of-e... The exercise provided by ebikes when all things are equal is lower than regular bikes, but all things are not equal as people with ebikes tend to ride more day to day (on aggregate).
  - Mawr 3y ago
    This depends on legislation, but in a lot of countries ebikes that don't require pedaling are illegal. From personal experience, riding on an ebike still provides plenty of exercise, certainly more than the literally zero that you get when driving. In any case, I only brought up ebikes in the context of arduous journeys. Most people will not travel by ebike, they're too expensive. It's not about trying to persuade people in car-dependent places to go against the grain and bike everywhere. Rather, a network of bike infrastructure should be built, making biking a viable choice. In time biking would become normalized, nobody would need to be explicitly persuaded. After all, Americans don't drive everywhere because they've been convinced to, they do it because the ever-present car infrastructure makes it the most convenient option.
- estebank 3y ago
  > You'd be hard pressed to come up with a shopping load that won't fit on a cargo bike. There's a side effect of car prevalence and land use in the US: everyone can be "expected" to have a car, so grocery shops tend to locate in places further away with cheaper land, which make it more convenient to make big shops, which require a car... I find that most Americans are not comfortable or even familiar with "I'll pop into the shop to buy milk a block away". Some neighborhoods in cities don't have local grocery shops. So if you're used to that built environment your first thought is "I can't fit a month's worth of food in a cargo bike, let alone ride for 10 miles!?" But if you propose letting a grocery shop in the neighborhood people think "parking, traffic and noise are gonna be terrible!"
  - Mawr 3y ago
    Yeah, I didn't want to get that far into it. For example, today I visited a store, my favourite coffee shop, a pharmacy, and two grocery stores in the span of a little more than an hour. I didn't even cycle, I just walked. The first store was 10 mins away from home. And that's an abnormal trip for me, I usually just pop into a grocery store on my walk home from work. If all I wanted to buy was milk, the overhead would be 5 mins.
  - bluefirebrand 3y ago
    I lived that "grocery store a block away" lifestyle and I still preferred to drive to get groceries. Not because I'm lazy, but because the nearby grocery store often cost more than double for the same items. And it was a grocery store, not a convenience store. Convenience stores were even worse.

Qwertious 3y ago

>On the other hand, for four to six months of the year, most areas of Canada, and even a good portion of the US, definitely don't. Myth. Why Canadians Can't Bike in the Winter (but Finnish people can): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU

HDThoreaun 3y ago
No, it's really not a myth. Biking in the winter is not fun unless you have completely enclosed paths. Finnish culture means that people do it anyway, but that wouldn't fly in American culture, no matter how good the snow removal and bike lanes are. I say this as someone who bikes year round in a northern city, the vast majority of people have no interest in biking in the cold.

bluGill 3y ago

In general the farther north you go in North America the more people on bikes you find. Most people do not bike when it is near freezing or below, there are a few.

dotcoma 3y ago

Calling Amsterdam an ideal city for cycling is a stretch. It's coldish, it rains quite a lot and it's very windy. Things would be a lot easier for people on bikes here in Milan, Italy where I live... except that they are not. It's not so safe during rush hour, and it's full of people who would rather take their stupid car instead of walking half a mile. Distances are larger in North America, but climate-wise people cycle more in NYC or in Minneapolis than they do in Atlanta or in Dallas. To sum it up: make cycling as safe as possible, and discourage car use, and especially car abuse -- picking up kids from school with an SUV, for example.