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You have it backwards IMO, the only reason Apple is able to achieve this effect is because their phones are heads and shoulders above the rest in hardware quali

You have it backwards IMO, the only reason Apple is able to achieve this effect is because their phones are heads and shoulders above the rest in hardware quality and integration. Build it (well) and they will come

campboy 3y ago
100%, if there were another option with the same build quality (particularly for laptops) I’d love to try something new. Everything else is kinda mediocre in comparison. (The funniest thing is when folks on some Thinkpad or Dell think their machine has a comparable quality… It really doesn’t. You might not care in much the same way someone might care or not care about Tesla’s historically poor fitment, but there’s a real difference regardless).
- nkozyra 3y ago
  I haven't found a single laptop that competes with the Macbook on build quality, but moving to a Pixel phone from an iPhone was basically a wash.
- foobarian 3y ago
  One time around 2012 I was buying a laptop for someone who needed a Windows machine. Knowing the poor build quality of various low end options we decided to splurge and get a top of the line Dell model with a nicer magnesium case etc. with a price tag close to $2k. We unboxed it, powered it on, and were greeted by a loud grating noise that went away if you flexed the case. Returned it immediately been using Apple laptops ever since.
nkozyra 3y ago
> You have it backwards IMO, the only reason Apple is able to achieve this effect is because their phones are heads and shoulders above the rest in hardware quality and integration. Build it (well) and they will come Well this doesn't explain why a person is upgrading from last year's model, which effectively does every single thing just as well. The status symbol feature is what makes people upgrade _when they don't need to_. Apple has that, other manufacturers don't.
- llm_nerd 3y ago
  While I am simply astonishing that so many people are playing along with such an obvious bad-faith troll as the root of this thread... The vast majority of Apple users don't upgrade year over year. Those that do generally take advantage of fantastic resale values to get the upgrade at little price. And are you claiming that Samsung or Pixel owners aren't doing the same? I know a number of peers who buy whatever is the newest, and it certainly isn't limited to Apple users.
  - nkozyra 3y ago
    > The vast majority of Apple users don't upgrade year over year. I agree with that. But young people - for whom status symbols carry the most weight - generally upgrade their iphone in less than two years at a clip of ~50%. > And are you claiming that Samsung or Pixel owners aren't doing the same? I didn't claim that. I don't know. But it's less of an investment and far less of a status symbol.
    - llm_nerd 3y ago
      "But young people" Can you cite your source? Like what does "young people" mean? Many young people with iPhones have old devices with broken screens. I can find a Gallup survey from 7 years ago claiming an upgrade rate every 2 years (actually they answered "whatever my provider supports", which isn't as relevant now), but notably the differences were much bigger between generations in 2015. Now many would be hard pressed to differentiate an XR from a 15. "I didn't claim that." You literally said "Apple has that, other manufacturers don't.". It's simply untrue. My wife has an XR and I cannot convince her to upgrade as she just doesn't want the hassle of moving to a new device. And of course that XR still gets the latest OS, updates, supports all apps, etc, quite a contrast from many competitors... "But it's less of an investment" Many Samsung devices are more expensive than Apple devices. Pixel 8 devices are similarly priced. As to the status claim, it's amazing how much more of a status thing non-Apple device holders make about their choice than people just choose a very good quality, high performance, well and long supported Apple device...
saiya-jin 3y ago
That is not true. Nothing Apple does say Samsung cannot repeat, heck these 2 specifically share quite a bit of hardware too, ie screens. In fact top of the line Samsung is more impressive to me, it manages to store whole chargeable pen in the body and is lighter than comparable Apple models. There are much better sounding headphones/earplugs, ie Sennheiser. Apple does fine products (and their share of fails), but their secret sauce is a mix of PR, timing, brilliant leadership, and tons of luck with ie that timing to market. Hardware quality is good, but that's true for literally everybody in the field and is definitely not the differentiating factor these days.
- foobarian 3y ago
  This reads like that famous line criticizing the iPod for having worse hardware specs than a competitor. You need to include vertical integration and design in their secret sauce. Everybody else has been struggling to catch up ever since the iPod came out, and IMO they have not caught up yet.
jampekka 3y ago
Apple's main thing is that their devices and systems are appliances. They restrict what can be done to the most common tasks so those tasks can be polished. Tasks that they don't support are often more or less impossible to do. And that's probably what most people want, or think they want.

campboy 3y ago

100%, if there were another option with the same build quality (particularly for laptops) I’d love to try something new. Everything else is kinda mediocre in comparison. (The funniest thing is when folks on some Thinkpad or Dell think their machine has a comparable quality… It really doesn’t. You might not care in much the same way someone might care or not care about Tesla’s historically poor fitment, but there’s a real difference regardless).

nkozyra 3y ago
I haven't found a single laptop that competes with the Macbook on build quality, but moving to a Pixel phone from an iPhone was basically a wash.
foobarian 3y ago
One time around 2012 I was buying a laptop for someone who needed a Windows machine. Knowing the poor build quality of various low end options we decided to splurge and get a top of the line Dell model with a nicer magnesium case etc. with a price tag close to $2k. We unboxed it, powered it on, and were greeted by a loud grating noise that went away if you flexed the case. Returned it immediately been using Apple laptops ever since.

nkozyra 3y ago

> You have it backwards IMO, the only reason Apple is able to achieve this effect is because their phones are heads and shoulders above the rest in hardware quality and integration. Build it (well) and they will come Well this doesn't explain why a person is upgrading from last year's model, which effectively does every single thing just as well. The status symbol feature is what makes people upgrade _when they don't need to_. Apple has that, other manufacturers don't.

llm_nerd 3y ago
While I am simply astonishing that so many people are playing along with such an obvious bad-faith troll as the root of this thread... The vast majority of Apple users don't upgrade year over year. Those that do generally take advantage of fantastic resale values to get the upgrade at little price. And are you claiming that Samsung or Pixel owners aren't doing the same? I know a number of peers who buy whatever is the newest, and it certainly isn't limited to Apple users.
- nkozyra 3y ago
  > The vast majority of Apple users don't upgrade year over year. I agree with that. But young people - for whom status symbols carry the most weight - generally upgrade their iphone in less than two years at a clip of ~50%. > And are you claiming that Samsung or Pixel owners aren't doing the same? I didn't claim that. I don't know. But it's less of an investment and far less of a status symbol.
  - llm_nerd 3y ago
    "But young people" Can you cite your source? Like what does "young people" mean? Many young people with iPhones have old devices with broken screens. I can find a Gallup survey from 7 years ago claiming an upgrade rate every 2 years (actually they answered "whatever my provider supports", which isn't as relevant now), but notably the differences were much bigger between generations in 2015. Now many would be hard pressed to differentiate an XR from a 15. "I didn't claim that." You literally said "Apple has that, other manufacturers don't.". It's simply untrue. My wife has an XR and I cannot convince her to upgrade as she just doesn't want the hassle of moving to a new device. And of course that XR still gets the latest OS, updates, supports all apps, etc, quite a contrast from many competitors... "But it's less of an investment" Many Samsung devices are more expensive than Apple devices. Pixel 8 devices are similarly priced. As to the status claim, it's amazing how much more of a status thing non-Apple device holders make about their choice than people just choose a very good quality, high performance, well and long supported Apple device...

saiya-jin 3y ago

That is not true. Nothing Apple does say Samsung cannot repeat, heck these 2 specifically share quite a bit of hardware too, ie screens. In fact top of the line Samsung is more impressive to me, it manages to store whole chargeable pen in the body and is lighter than comparable Apple models. There are much better sounding headphones/earplugs, ie Sennheiser. Apple does fine products (and their share of fails), but their secret sauce is a mix of PR, timing, brilliant leadership, and tons of luck with ie that timing to market. Hardware quality is good, but that's true for literally everybody in the field and is definitely not the differentiating factor these days.

foobarian 3y ago
This reads like that famous line criticizing the iPod for having worse hardware specs than a competitor. You need to include vertical integration and design in their secret sauce. Everybody else has been struggling to catch up ever since the iPod came out, and IMO they have not caught up yet.

jampekka 3y ago

Apple's main thing is that their devices and systems are appliances. They restrict what can be done to the most common tasks so those tasks can be polished. Tasks that they don't support are often more or less impossible to do. And that's probably what most people want, or think they want.