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Not surprising. Phone upgrades in the last 5 years have been barely worth it. I'll be to first to criticize and mock The Google, but I've been plenty happy wi

Not surprising. Phone upgrades in the last 5 years have been barely worth it. I'll be to first to criticize and mock The Google, but I've been plenty happy with my refurbished Pixel 5 that I not only plan on running it into the ground but getting another one if it finally croaks or loses too much battery capacity. Yes, I could just get the latest Pixel when that happens, but why switch from a phone that I know intimately that does everything I need? Perhaps another contributor to the decline may be that the olds who didn't own a smartphone either have one by now or they're dead.

jghn 3y ago
I'm on Apple's yearly upgrade plan and still don't bother. I'm not interested in a device larger than their mini form factor, and they keep a) killing the mini and b) making their devices larger. At the moment the mini I have is better than their SE offering. So why bother updating my phone? And as you say, everything works fine enough for me, so there's no pressure for me to move off my stance.
- Abekkus 3y ago
  I deeply miss the iphone 5 form factor, their current "mini" and SE are noteiceably bigger than that size. I'm guessing smaller phones don't get people lost in content as well as the larger ones, and that's why they're not being made anymore.
  - jghn 3y ago
    A number of years ago an observation I had was that people mostly binned into 2 clusters. One was people who tended to use their phone on the go & thus using it one handed, for instance while walking around. The other was people who tended to use their phone while sitting down and/or handing it off to their kids who were sitting down, so mostly 2 handed use. These two bins also corresponded with preference for smaller vs larger form factors. At least in the US there are a lot more people in the 2nd category than the first.
    - taylodl 3y ago
      I think you're right. Apple's solution to that problem is the Apple Watch. Buy a large phone that you use two-handed while sitting down, use your watch on the go. I just got an Apple Watch earlier this year. I have a nearly four-year old iPhone SE2 that I love for it's smaller form factor. When I replace my phone I'm definitely going to get a larger phone, because after getting my watch I only use the phone while I'm sitting down and I'd prefer to have a larger screen.
      - jghn 3y ago
        I have an Apple Watch and as someone in the using it on the go category it's not sufficient. It either doesn't serve my purposes and/or is worse for most of what I use my phone for. I'll catch up on emails, msgs, social media, HN, etc while walking to my next thing. I *could* do *some* of that on my watch but it's objectively worse experience wise.
parthdesai 3y ago
As the technology matures, you don't really need to upgrade it every year. You can already see that the updates in phone are incremental. For a person updating their phone every 3 years, it's a big update but that's not the case anymore for a person upgrading their phone every year.
kspacewalk2 3y ago
One issue is that your Pixel 5 won't get any more security updates (past October 2023). My wife's Pixel 4A is in the same boat - perfectly fine except no more security updates. Doesn't matter much right now, but will gradually start to matter over time.
- ravenstine 3y ago
  That's true, though I kind of don't care. Many people of course do care. My risk tolerance is higher than most. I suspect companies like The Google hold security over people's heads in order to effectively inject code and encourage buying new phones. If I haven't installed new software in a very long time, and most of what I use is FOSS, and I rarely ever update my apps, and there's no reason to believe there's any vulnerability, then I'm pretty lukewarm on changing anything. That said, I have been contemplating a migration to LineageOS, which would provide security updates beyond October 2023, and possibly make my Pixel 5 even better than it already is.
  - parl_match 3y ago
    > That's true, though I kind of don't care. Many people of course do care. My risk tolerance is higher than most. It shouldn't be - common smartphone malware attacks now steal banking info, personal info, and even look for sexting pics that are used as blackmail. > I suspect companies like The Google hold security over people's heads in order to effectively inject code and encourage buying new phones The former is nonsense but the latter is kinda true. Or rather, manufacturers bake the cost of updates into phones, which are already low margin devices. This encourages shorter lifespans, which is actually a problem for Google. > there's no reason to believe there's any vulnerability There's always going to be vulnerabilities. And, they'll likely come via web views, not through attacks directly on the app. All it takes is a service you use that embeds a webview (tons of them), to get SCA'd or injection attacked, and you've got a huge problem.
    - coldpie 3y ago
      > common smartphone malware attacks now steal banking info, personal info, and even look for sexting pics that are used as blackmail. > All it takes is a service you use that embeds a webview (tons of them), to get SCA'd or injection attacked, and you've got a huge problem. Can you provide some evidence of these attacks actually being used in the wild?
_fat_santa 3y ago
I'm starting to get nostalgic for the early days of smartphones (2008-2014 or so), back then every year the phone you upgraded to was miles ahead of the previous generation device. I remember walking into the Apple store a few weeks after the iPhone 3GS came out and being blown away by the performance compared to my iPhone 3G. Phones have gotten way better since then but they also became boring and commonplace. Back then all the power users either jailbroke if they were on iOS or installed CyanogenMod if they were on Android. My 3 fondest memories of that time were: 1. Getting BiteSMS on my iPhone 3G: BiteSMS was an alternative SMS app that offered quick replies, something the native messenger didn't offer until a year or so later. I felt so cool at school when my friends saw the pink logo on my dock instead of the green one. 2. Hacking Multitasking on the iPhone 3G: IIRC when iOS 4 came out alongside the 3GS, the 3GS has multitasking but they never backported the feature to the 3G. When I jailbroke iOS 4 on my device it gave me the option of enabling multitasking. Once I enabled it I realized why Apple didn't backport the feature, the 3G was so down on power compared to the 3GS that it completely crawled to a halt if you had more than 2 apps running. 3. Around 2011 I got a Samsung Galaxy S2 and after installing various ROM's and quite a bit of hacking I got Google Wallet to work on the device. I remember the first time I tapped my phone and paid for something it felt like magic. Now we all take it for granted with Apple Pay and Google Pay but back then there were barely any terminals to even tap your phone so getting to do that felt like black magic.
randomopining 3y ago
And yet I still bought the 15 pro. Slightly faster and lighter with slightly better camera!
guestbest 3y ago
The processor is faster when compared to a 2017 phone and the camera is much better when comparing images side by side. I wouldn’t have noticed but I put a Motorola Android 2017 next to a iPhone SE 2020 and it became very noticeable.
cagey 3y ago
Reading this thread reminded me to check my Pixel 5 (primary phone, purchased new just over 3 years ago) for updates. And to my surprise, there was a Android Security Update available which, now that it has been downloaded and installed, is dated Nov 5, 2023! Maybe that'll be the last one this phone gets, but maybe not. Anyway, I'm perfectly happy with my Pixel 5 (aside from slightly declining battery performance, it's "as good as new"); I even bought a "excellent" refurb'd Pixel 5 9 months ago to use on a second/backup line (I was also thinking to use one or both for anticipated trade-in's on Pixel 8's, but with nominal updates all in the rearview mirror, Google's trade-in value has declined to negligible, so I plan to just keep using the 5's; the cost of the 8 vs it's value add was not compelling). 8GB RAM and 128GB of local storage is plenty for my needs, and I certainly don't want a bigger phone!
isk517 3y ago
I basically ran my Galaxy S9 into the ground before replacing it last January. I replaced it with a Xperia 1 III because I didn't see the point of paying a extra $500 to get the IV. The new phone runs noticeably smoother than the old phone, but not by a game changing amount, nor by the amount one would have come to expect from about a 5 year leap forward in technology.

jghn 3y ago

I'm on Apple's yearly upgrade plan and still don't bother. I'm not interested in a device larger than their mini form factor, and they keep a) killing the mini and b) making their devices larger. At the moment the mini I have is better than their SE offering. So why bother updating my phone? And as you say, everything works fine enough for me, so there's no pressure for me to move off my stance.

Abekkus 3y ago
I deeply miss the iphone 5 form factor, their current "mini" and SE are noteiceably bigger than that size. I'm guessing smaller phones don't get people lost in content as well as the larger ones, and that's why they're not being made anymore.
- jghn 3y ago
  A number of years ago an observation I had was that people mostly binned into 2 clusters. One was people who tended to use their phone on the go & thus using it one handed, for instance while walking around. The other was people who tended to use their phone while sitting down and/or handing it off to their kids who were sitting down, so mostly 2 handed use. These two bins also corresponded with preference for smaller vs larger form factors. At least in the US there are a lot more people in the 2nd category than the first.
  - taylodl 3y ago
    I think you're right. Apple's solution to that problem is the Apple Watch. Buy a large phone that you use two-handed while sitting down, use your watch on the go. I just got an Apple Watch earlier this year. I have a nearly four-year old iPhone SE2 that I love for it's smaller form factor. When I replace my phone I'm definitely going to get a larger phone, because after getting my watch I only use the phone while I'm sitting down and I'd prefer to have a larger screen.
    - jghn 3y ago
      I have an Apple Watch and as someone in the using it on the go category it's not sufficient. It either doesn't serve my purposes and/or is worse for most of what I use my phone for. I'll catch up on emails, msgs, social media, HN, etc while walking to my next thing. I *could* do *some* of that on my watch but it's objectively worse experience wise.

parthdesai 3y ago

As the technology matures, you don't really need to upgrade it every year. You can already see that the updates in phone are incremental. For a person updating their phone every 3 years, it's a big update but that's not the case anymore for a person upgrading their phone every year.

kspacewalk2 3y ago

One issue is that your Pixel 5 won't get any more security updates (past October 2023). My wife's Pixel 4A is in the same boat - perfectly fine except no more security updates. Doesn't matter much right now, but will gradually start to matter over time.

ravenstine 3y ago
That's true, though I kind of don't care. Many people of course do care. My risk tolerance is higher than most. I suspect companies like The Google hold security over people's heads in order to effectively inject code and encourage buying new phones. If I haven't installed new software in a very long time, and most of what I use is FOSS, and I rarely ever update my apps, and there's no reason to believe there's any vulnerability, then I'm pretty lukewarm on changing anything. That said, I have been contemplating a migration to LineageOS, which would provide security updates beyond October 2023, and possibly make my Pixel 5 even better than it already is.
- parl_match 3y ago
  > That's true, though I kind of don't care. Many people of course do care. My risk tolerance is higher than most. It shouldn't be - common smartphone malware attacks now steal banking info, personal info, and even look for sexting pics that are used as blackmail. > I suspect companies like The Google hold security over people's heads in order to effectively inject code and encourage buying new phones The former is nonsense but the latter is kinda true. Or rather, manufacturers bake the cost of updates into phones, which are already low margin devices. This encourages shorter lifespans, which is actually a problem for Google. > there's no reason to believe there's any vulnerability There's always going to be vulnerabilities. And, they'll likely come via web views, not through attacks directly on the app. All it takes is a service you use that embeds a webview (tons of them), to get SCA'd or injection attacked, and you've got a huge problem.
  - coldpie 3y ago
    > common smartphone malware attacks now steal banking info, personal info, and even look for sexting pics that are used as blackmail. > All it takes is a service you use that embeds a webview (tons of them), to get SCA'd or injection attacked, and you've got a huge problem. Can you provide some evidence of these attacks actually being used in the wild?

_fat_santa 3y ago

I'm starting to get nostalgic for the early days of smartphones (2008-2014 or so), back then every year the phone you upgraded to was miles ahead of the previous generation device. I remember walking into the Apple store a few weeks after the iPhone 3GS came out and being blown away by the performance compared to my iPhone 3G. Phones have gotten way better since then but they also became boring and commonplace. Back then all the power users either jailbroke if they were on iOS or installed CyanogenMod if they were on Android. My 3 fondest memories of that time were: 1. Getting BiteSMS on my iPhone 3G: BiteSMS was an alternative SMS app that offered quick replies, something the native messenger didn't offer until a year or so later. I felt so cool at school when my friends saw the pink logo on my dock instead of the green one. 2. Hacking Multitasking on the iPhone 3G: IIRC when iOS 4 came out alongside the 3GS, the 3GS has multitasking but they never backported the feature to the 3G. When I jailbroke iOS 4 on my device it gave me the option of enabling multitasking. Once I enabled it I realized why Apple didn't backport the feature, the 3G was so down on power compared to the 3GS that it completely crawled to a halt if you had more than 2 apps running. 3. Around 2011 I got a Samsung Galaxy S2 and after installing various ROM's and quite a bit of hacking I got Google Wallet to work on the device. I remember the first time I tapped my phone and paid for something it felt like magic. Now we all take it for granted with Apple Pay and Google Pay but back then there were barely any terminals to even tap your phone so getting to do that felt like black magic.

randomopining 3y ago

And yet I still bought the 15 pro. Slightly faster and lighter with slightly better camera!

guestbest 3y ago

The processor is faster when compared to a 2017 phone and the camera is much better when comparing images side by side. I wouldn’t have noticed but I put a Motorola Android 2017 next to a iPhone SE 2020 and it became very noticeable.

cagey 3y ago

Reading this thread reminded me to check my Pixel 5 (primary phone, purchased new just over 3 years ago) for updates. And to my surprise, there was a Android Security Update available which, now that it has been downloaded and installed, is dated Nov 5, 2023! Maybe that'll be the last one this phone gets, but maybe not. Anyway, I'm perfectly happy with my Pixel 5 (aside from slightly declining battery performance, it's "as good as new"); I even bought a "excellent" refurb'd Pixel 5 9 months ago to use on a second/backup line (I was also thinking to use one or both for anticipated trade-in's on Pixel 8's, but with nominal updates all in the rearview mirror, Google's trade-in value has declined to negligible, so I plan to just keep using the 5's; the cost of the 8 vs it's value add was not compelling). 8GB RAM and 128GB of local storage is plenty for my needs, and I certainly don't want a bigger phone!

isk517 3y ago

I basically ran my Galaxy S9 into the ground before replacing it last January. I replaced it with a Xperia 1 III because I didn't see the point of paying a extra $500 to get the IV. The new phone runs noticeably smoother than the old phone, but not by a game changing amount, nor by the amount one would have come to expect from about a 5 year leap forward in technology.