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Workers in Sweden Will Expand Strike Against Tesla
- VoxPelli 3y agoTwo other HN posts (that are not paywalls): - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38190645 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38190645 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38191008 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38191008
- thecopy 3y agoThis includes: * Ports will refuse to load Tesla cars * Post and package delivery denied * No office/factory cleaning
- VoxPelli 3y agoAnd: * Electricians won’t do work on office/factory/superchargers
- ruined 3y agonote that this type of action is illegal in the united states
- gedy 3y agoThis is to force unionization of Tesla?
- eddtries 3y agoIt’s to force Tesla to sign the collective bargaining agreement for mechanics, guaranteeing a minimum salary/holiday allowance/pension
- VoxPelli 3y agoIt’s to force Tesla to respect the agreed upon model of the Swedish labor market. Instead of having the government decide everything we let the employer organizations and the unions negotiate deals that are adapted to the needs of the sector they are in. The employers and workers knows much better what is needed to make companies and workers flourish and giving them the freedom to negotiate without having the government meddling with it – that has been very beneficial to Sweden. In this agreement it has been understood that employers respect the strikes of workers and doesn’t replace striking workers with other workers. Now Tesla is actively trying to circumvent the strikes and that is pretty much unheard of here and threatens to set a precedent that threatens the entire model of the Swedish labor market. That’s why there are these strong sympathy strikes now – as Tesla responded to the first strike by attacking the very foundation of our employer-worker relation here in Sweden. So it’s more than just forcing unionization, it’s about forcing Tesla to respect the Swedish labor market and how we collectively bargain here.
- toomuchtodo 3y agoCan you provide a citation demonstrating evidence of this assertion (it is a very general statement)? You might be referring to the Taft-Hartley act [1], which there are ways around. The NLRB also has a great resource on the topic [2]. It is true there are situations where you cannot strike, which labor organization needs to be mindful of. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft%E2%80%93Hartley_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft%E2%80%93Hartley_Act [2] https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/nlra-and-the-right-to-strike https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-right...
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- foobarian 3y agoTo pick one of the examples above, could the USPS legally help out the strike by selectively rejecting packages going to/from Tesla addresses? My guess would be it would need to be a bottom up organization breaking company rules, probably isolated to some regions. Then again unions and striking was illegal during robber baron times too, but not necessarily immoral.
- toomuchtodo 3y agoIndeed, there is nuance between outright illegal and bending the rules or taking actions that are effectively a strike without outright striking. Determine the desired outcome, seek a legal opinion from counsel, and build your strategy backwards from that. Perhaps you don't strike, but slow down, call out, whatever. "Are we on strike or we just collectively having an off day?" In this specific example, if people like Elon can break the law without repercussions, it seems disingenuous to fault workers attempting to do the same (depending on where the actions fall between bending and breaking any specific law) to protect their rights, compensation, and working arrangements considering they're where they actual value comes from. Tesla is afraid of the precedent of labor having a role in their management and operations decisions (because Elon demands operating from a position of power against all), but they are fighting a losing battle (Sean Fein and the UAW in the US [1], incredibly high support of unions in the under 30 cohort in the US [2] [3] [4], etc). > And among those on the frontlines are the nation's youngest workers leading the renewed push for labour unions. Gen Z is, according to the Center for American Progress, "the most pro-union generation alive today". > "I think there's a growing understanding that if you have a job, you need a union," says Jaz Brisack. The now-26-year-old was one of the earliest leaders of union efforts at Starbucks in Buffalo, New York, in 2021. [1] https://www.thestreet.com/electric-vehicles/uaw-president-shawn-fain-anti-union-tesla-chief-elon-musk-cant-keep-his-auto-union-out https://www.thestreet.com/electric-vehicles/uaw-president-sh... [2] https://www.americanprogress.org/press/release-gen-z-is-the-most-pro-union-generation-new-cap-analysis-finds/ https://www.americanprogress.org/press/release-gen-z-is-the-... [3] https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20230831-the-gen-zers-leading-a-new-pro-union-push https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20230831-the-gen-zers-l... [4] https://www.npr.org/2023/04/11/1169314853/union-rutgers-strike-gen-z-labor-work-workforce-starbucks-organizing https://www.npr.org/2023/04/11/1169314853/union-rutgers-stri...
- ajhurliman 3y agoActually, this would be considered a “secondary boycott” which is illegal in the US: “Secondary boycotts: These are strikes that are directed at someone other than the strikers’ employer.”
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- bcrosby95 3y agoI guess only corporations, and not unions, are people.
- dragonwriter 3y agoUnions mostly are also corporations.
- VoxPelli 3y agoThey are non-profits?
- dragonwriter 3y agoGenerally (most non-profits are also corporations, though other forms are possible.)
- lefstathiou 3y agoMass coordinated boycotts by unrelated parties is severe market manipulation imo. Unions receive special status under law, this takes it too far.
- p_j_w 3y agoMass coordinated boycotts aren't market manipulation, they're the real market in action.
- aaomidi 3y agoBut no! They hurt the owner class so it’s bad!
- mrmanner 3y agoSome countries legislate minimum wages. Now that’s some market manipulation. Strong unions working together are a small price to pay to keep the government from interfering.
- croes 3y agoUnrelated parties? I think the same nationality makes them pretty related.
- rsynnott 3y ago_Market manipulation_? How on earth do you figure that?
- dontlaugh 3y agoSadly this is correct. Same in the UK too. It doesn't stop some unions from striking anyway, commonly called wildcat strikes.
- delfinom 3y ago"O no, the mail fell behind the shelf and we couldn't find it, we'll try again tomorrow and hopefully it doesn't fall behind the shelf again" The benefit of a union, is nobody will say otherwise ;)
- _yb2s 3y agoSo the benefit of a union is it that it encourages people to address conflicts in a childish and passive aggressive way that also causes collateral damage to uninvolved 3rd parties? I'm not running a business or anything, but if someone uses shady tactics like that against me, any negotiation is over on principle, regardless of the costs to both of us.
- vincnetas 3y agoDo you want to read about the way Italians strike? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work-to-rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work-to-rule aka Italian strike
- TraspSE 3y agoYou also have minimum wages regulated by law. In Sweden, both strikes and minimum wages are regulated by the agreement Tesla is refusing to sign. The union wants regulation, that's the whole point. Tesla only have themselves to blame for any action that stems from the decision to not sign a collective agreement. PS. 90% of Swedish labor is covered by collective agreements that has been hammered out over the last century - it is custom to sign it and no one has brought in scabs for almost a century during a strike, forcing unions to step up their game. As Tesla threatens the Swedish model, it is a concern for all labor.
- 3seashells 3y agoYeah and look how rundown it got them..
- vincnetas 3y agoAnd it's sad that sympathy strike is illegal in some countries. It's like being able to defend your own family, but being denied to help any other not directly related person. Like i see a women is being robed, but since she is not my wife i can't intervene and only can observe.
- kramerger 3y agoTeslas argument against this has been that they provide better terms already. Someone on r/sweden fact checked their statement and claims Tesla is worse on almost all comparison points including salary.
- hef19898 3y agoNo idea how collective bargaining works in Sweden, im Germany so individual employers regularly enter into supplemental agreements with their respesctive employee councils. So I guess bothing prevents Tesla from doing the same with regards to their "better" conditions, employees and unions propably wont oppose that neither.
- Ekaros 3y agoYou can always give employees more pay, more vacation, better health care and so on. No union will prevent that. It just guarantees the absolute minimum levels.
- Hamuko 3y agoOur collective agreement doesn't guarantee absolute minimums for all things. For example on on-call compensation: "Unless a local agreement has been made on standby compensation, the employee is paid 40% of the normal hourly salary."
- jordanbeiber 3y agoThat’s usually comp for simply being on-call - all agreements I’ve ever had includes increased compensation for actual on-call work a.k.a overtime compensation.
- Hamuko 3y agoThere's a separate section for the actual work. 3. Call-out Call-out means work for which the employee is called back after regular working hours and after having left the workplace. 3.1. At least one hour’s salary and a call-out pay shall be paid as follows: a) If the employee was called after regular working hours or on the employ- ee’s day off but before 9.00 pm, the call-out pay is equivalent to 2 hours’ salary. b) If the employee was called between 9:00 pm and 6:00 am, the call-out pay is equivalent to 3 hours’ salary. 3.2. If the work in case b) above represents daily overtime, the overtime com- pensation for call-out work done as overtime work is immediately 100%. https://ytn.fi/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/tes_engl_3101_2022_web.pdf https://ytn.fi/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/tes_engl_3101_2022...
- heinrich5991 3y agohttps://archive.is/jsJZX https://archive.is/jsJZX
- mynameishere 3y agoAt all points they are updating the spreadsheet entitled "cost/benefits of leaving Sweden." I suppose the labor cartel is trying for the razor's edge on that. I do like people arguing that other companies are better for workers. Perfect! Work there instead. No joke--I've done that.
- eddtries 3y agoIn Sweden there’s not many laws in place for employees, there’s collective bargaining agreements that unions ask for instead. For example there’s no minimum wage, but the unions get a fair living wage for employees. Union / Employer relationships are totally different here than the US. Companies have to agree to the agreement or they’ll struggle, and if Tesla want to leave they can. But employees rights for a good pension, salary, holiday (such as one month off over summer), paternity leave (such as a years leave), etc… are more important. Klarna tried this recently and just folded. Edit: I do want a Tesla, my workplace will buy me a car (as a perk) at a hefty discount, but if they leave I’ll get a Ford Mustang Mach-E :) no loss for us if Elon throws toys out the pram for ~130 employees
- mynameishere 3y agoif Tesla want to leave they can "Wanting" to leave has nothing to do with it. When the spreadsheet says, "Leave", then they leave. As for a "living wage", I am certain that amount is significantly less than what Tesla is currently paying.
- oblio 3y agoFor now. Plus what about working hours, safe working conditions? Tesla's record is abysmal. They need to sign the agreements so that they'll be bound by them even when Crazy CEO #2 has a bad quarter.
- rightbyte 3y agoI guess the union is fine with Tesla auto shops leaving and Tesla owners going to generic ones instead.
- curation 3y agoUAW and Sean Fein !
- raincole 3y agoWhat kind of positions does Tesla have in Sweden? Only mechanicians and sales?
- eddtries 3y agoYeah, there’s only like 130 of them
- VoxPelli 3y agoThey also have superchargers here – and the sympathy strikes from electricians will include them as well. And third party service workshops have also been included, so one of the best selling cars in Sweden right now will not be possible to service and neither possible to actually get shipped to Sweden.
- ecmascript 3y agoAs a person born in Sweden myself I have to say that the two times I have gone from a non-union contract to a union-contract the terms has been worse in a union. Pretty much all unions are left leaning politically, exclude members if you are connected to the wrong political party (Sweden Democrats) and don't offer many benefits for at least programmers. The workers don't want to strike obviously because they are satisfied with the contracts and have better terms and pay than in their previous jobs for the same age group according to themselves. It's illegal for employers to punish people for participating in unions in Sweden so anyone could go on strike without getting punished for it. Unions have outplayed their role in society for the most part. The jobs in Sweden that really need unions rarely have them (service jobs).
- jplrssn 3y agoUnions generally lean left politically for the same reason business organisations tend to lean right. It would be strange for them to advocate for worse policies for their members.
- VoxPelli 3y agoThe unions and the employer organizations both ensure we have strong businesses in Sweden. The unions doesn’t always try to get the most out of the companies in the short term but rather plays the long game and helps out in ensuring the company are healthy as well. In times of economic trouble they can eg collectively negotiate solutions that minimize the amount of job cuts by temporarily worsen the policies for the employees. The collective bargains applies to both members and non-members at the work place though.
- _Microft 3y agoAccording to Wikipedia, the "Sweden Democrats" party is a nationalist and right-wing populist party, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden_Democrats https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden_Democrats
- eddtries 3y ago
- slaw 3y agoTesla workers don't want to strike so other workers are blocking them from work. That should be illegal.
- SiempreViernes 3y agoThis is false, both in the sense that employees that would like to be scabs are not being prevented from crossing the picket line and that there are no Tesla workers taking part in the strike. However, because Tesla Sweden has repeatedly threatened repercussions (loss of company stock which is the main way Tesla Sweden matches market wages, loss of employment) if you strike, the picket lines are manned by other union members.
- slaw 3y agoThat is the first time I read Tesla Sweden was threatening it's workers. Could you give source to these claims?
- chmod775 3y agoHere's a source: https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/orebro/facket-strejkande-pa-tesla-hotas-med-uppsagning--8q1cof https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/orebro/facket-strejkande-p...
- monkaiju 3y agoWhy? Those workers are allowed to strike to better industry conditions. Alsobthe workers 'not wanting to strike' is very likely for fear of retaliation.