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Well, the Commission is elected by the elected governments of the member states. In a similar fashion, many heads of state are voted in by the elected governmen

Well, the Commission is elected by the elected governments of the member states. In a similar fashion, many heads of state are voted in by the elected government and not directly. Both procedures can be seen as iffy, but for the EU this was a deliberate compromise to get potential members on board.

Vinnl 3y ago
Which is to say: in your next national elections (Dutch ones are in two weeks!), vote for someone who'll use their influence to get a Commission you approve of.
- sgift 3y ago
  And in the EU parliament elections.
- jokethrowaway 3y ago
  That's hilarious This is never a talking point because it's so detached from normal people life and it's actionable - it's not a good empty promise they can taper cities with and then never fulfill. The ideal empty promise is something that will take more than 5y to evaluate and people care about.
- Gud 3y ago
  Or even better, vote for someone who will dismantle this nominally democratic system and implement something better. We can do better. https://www.eda.admin.ch/aboutswitzerland/en/home/politik-geschichte/politisches-system.html https://www.eda.admin.ch/aboutswitzerland/en/home/politik-ge...
josefx 3y ago
It is one thing to have that structure and hold to it, it is another matter to hold sham elections to select possible candidates and then pick people that weren't even on the list. Every time I hear of it it seems to go out of its way to shit on the very core concepts of democracy, maybe not because it is that way by design, but simply because it can.
belter 3y ago
Your comment ignores the well known fact, that within party factions, election for the golden salaries of Brussels and the European parliament are a compensation mechanism. For the losers within the power plays of internal Party politics in Europe. The winners run the Government and run Ministries. The losers are sent to Brussels.
denton-scratch 3y ago
> Well, the Commission is elected by the elected governments of the member states. Nope. Commissioners are appointed by the member governments. Each government has an allocation of commissioners to appoint. They are usually failed politicians of the party of government (all political careers end in failure). They have to be signed off by the EU parliament (I think), but nobody in Europe knows the background of every political has-been in other EU countries.
- matthewdgreen 3y ago
  I believe that the EU Council (elected heads of state) gets to appoint the EU Commission President, with an approval required from the Parliament. The remaining 26 Commissioners are selected by the Council of Ministers (appointed ministers for each EU member state, and hence an additional layer of indirection away from the actual electorate.) Then Parliament has some substantially more limited ability to review these appointments, but I don't think they get an outright veto.
  - realityking 3y ago
    The European Parliament does get an outright veto or rather the opposite, without explicit approval from the EP commissioners can‘t be appointed. The catch, they can only approve (or not approve) them as a group. Usually the parliament will indicate which nominated members they find unacceptable and those respective countries nominate new candidates. Reference: https://www.europeactive.eu/news/european-parliament-gearing-confirmation-new-european-commissioners https://www.europeactive.eu/news/european-parliament-gearing... Arguably this is more democratic than how we appoint government ministers in Germany. The chancellor gets elected by parliament and then appoints (and fires) ministers on their own authority without any check by parliament.
    - denton-scratch 3y ago
      > The catch, they can only approve (or not approve) them as a group. OK, that's what I thought, but I had doubts, because I read something contrary recently. Thanks for clarifying. Can German chancellors appoint anyone they like as ministers, or do they have to appoint someone who has been elected to the Bundestag? Because commissioners are not elected. So, as I recall, there's been exactly one instance in which the EU Parliament has rejected all the Commissioners; they sacked the lot, because it was evident that they were mostly corrupt. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
nvm0n2 3y ago
The Commission President has a de facto (not de jure) veto power over who the member states nominate so in reality the Commission is selected by its President. The President is in theory selected by the Council (leaders of the member states), but in practice the whole process is secret so nobody knows how it happens. Certainly the Commission often ends up with extremely dubious Presidents where nobody can explain on what merits they gained that position. And then the selection of both President and Commissioners is supposed to be ratified by the Parliament but last time they were given a vote with a single option on it. You could either support vdL or abstain. And it's not a real Parliament anyway so nobody with any political ambition actually runs for it, it's a joke chamber made up of yes-men and people who think their countries should leave the EU entirely. Even Juncker didn't take it seriously. So nothing about the Commission relies on elections.

Vinnl 3y ago

Which is to say: in your next national elections (Dutch ones are in two weeks!), vote for someone who'll use their influence to get a Commission you approve of.

sgift 3y ago
And in the EU parliament elections.
jokethrowaway 3y ago
That's hilarious This is never a talking point because it's so detached from normal people life and it's actionable - it's not a good empty promise they can taper cities with and then never fulfill. The ideal empty promise is something that will take more than 5y to evaluate and people care about.
Gud 3y ago
Or even better, vote for someone who will dismantle this nominally democratic system and implement something better. We can do better. https://www.eda.admin.ch/aboutswitzerland/en/home/politik-geschichte/politisches-system.html https://www.eda.admin.ch/aboutswitzerland/en/home/politik-ge...

josefx 3y ago

It is one thing to have that structure and hold to it, it is another matter to hold sham elections to select possible candidates and then pick people that weren't even on the list. Every time I hear of it it seems to go out of its way to shit on the very core concepts of democracy, maybe not because it is that way by design, but simply because it can.

belter 3y ago

Your comment ignores the well known fact, that within party factions, election for the golden salaries of Brussels and the European parliament are a compensation mechanism. For the losers within the power plays of internal Party politics in Europe. The winners run the Government and run Ministries. The losers are sent to Brussels.

denton-scratch 3y ago

> Well, the Commission is elected by the elected governments of the member states. Nope. Commissioners are appointed by the member governments. Each government has an allocation of commissioners to appoint. They are usually failed politicians of the party of government (all political careers end in failure). They have to be signed off by the EU parliament (I think), but nobody in Europe knows the background of every political has-been in other EU countries.

matthewdgreen 3y ago
I believe that the EU Council (elected heads of state) gets to appoint the EU Commission President, with an approval required from the Parliament. The remaining 26 Commissioners are selected by the Council of Ministers (appointed ministers for each EU member state, and hence an additional layer of indirection away from the actual electorate.) Then Parliament has some substantially more limited ability to review these appointments, but I don't think they get an outright veto.
- realityking 3y ago
  The European Parliament does get an outright veto or rather the opposite, without explicit approval from the EP commissioners can‘t be appointed. The catch, they can only approve (or not approve) them as a group. Usually the parliament will indicate which nominated members they find unacceptable and those respective countries nominate new candidates. Reference: https://www.europeactive.eu/news/european-parliament-gearing-confirmation-new-european-commissioners https://www.europeactive.eu/news/european-parliament-gearing... Arguably this is more democratic than how we appoint government ministers in Germany. The chancellor gets elected by parliament and then appoints (and fires) ministers on their own authority without any check by parliament.
  - denton-scratch 3y ago
    > The catch, they can only approve (or not approve) them as a group. OK, that's what I thought, but I had doubts, because I read something contrary recently. Thanks for clarifying. Can German chancellors appoint anyone they like as ministers, or do they have to appoint someone who has been elected to the Bundestag? Because commissioners are not elected. So, as I recall, there's been exactly one instance in which the EU Parliament has rejected all the Commissioners; they sacked the lot, because it was evident that they were mostly corrupt. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

nvm0n2 3y ago

The Commission President has a de facto (not de jure) veto power over who the member states nominate so in reality the Commission is selected by its President. The President is in theory selected by the Council (leaders of the member states), but in practice the whole process is secret so nobody knows how it happens. Certainly the Commission often ends up with extremely dubious Presidents where nobody can explain on what merits they gained that position. And then the selection of both President and Commissioners is supposed to be ratified by the Parliament but last time they were given a vote with a single option on it. You could either support vdL or abstain. And it's not a real Parliament anyway so nobody with any political ambition actually runs for it, it's a joke chamber made up of yes-men and people who think their countries should leave the EU entirely. Even Juncker didn't take it seriously. So nothing about the Commission relies on elections.