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At no point did I say I don't like this. It's absolutely the best career I could think of. No heavy lifting, no dealing with bodily fluids or excrement, no hars

by baz00 3y ago

At no point did I say I don't like this. It's absolutely the best career I could think of. No heavy lifting, no dealing with bodily fluids or excrement, no harsh weather conditions, low to no risk of getting killed, no dangerous chemicals, no being shot at etc. And I get to play with things all the time and solve interesting problems. But it is what it is!

onethought 3y ago
Right, but you are cynical and dispassionate. There is a world you could be working in a place where you are more passionate and less cynical. (This could be more personality than experience though, so I agree it could be a misread)
- baz00 3y ago
  I am passionate about the things I'm interested in, not all the unnecessary fluff around them :)
- d4mi3n 3y ago
  Not everyone needs to be passionate about the day job. Being present, competent, and reliable is enough. I’d personally go on to say that it’s risky to put too much emotional investment into something you don’t own/control. I prefer to invest my passion in things outside of my day job. Working is fine, but it’s a means to an end to fuel more meaningful things. We don’t live to work.
  - pseudoramble 3y ago
    "I’d personally go on to say that it’s risky to put too much emotional investment into something you don’t own/control." Bingo! This is exactly what happened to me. What I learned is that, even in a great environment where there was a ton of latitude to have ownership of technical details and even product details, it's still contained within the broader context of a business. That business has interest in the thing you're working on while it's a factor in creating value, and when it becomes time to change focus onto other things, it will generally do that without much hesitation. I've been burned by this multiple times. Eventually it clicked for me in the way you phrased it. So I show up and do what I can, bring my expertise as much as I can, gauge where the limits of what I can provide are, and keep a healthy distance mentally otherwise. One other note - you can still be passionate about software and not one specific day job. You can still work on other projects and explore ideas as much as you want. It's just that that's a separate thing from work. Dedicate time and space separately for that IMO.
    - d4mi3n 3y ago
      > One other note - you can still be passionate about software and not one specific day job. You can still work on other projects and explore ideas as much as you want. It's just that that's a separate thing from work. Dedicate time and space separately for that IMO. This is what I was trying to get at and you've phrased it beautifully. Thank you.
- jyounker 3y ago
  After 30 years in the job, I say that the poster you're responding to is just realistic. I love my job. I love what I do, but it's worth remembering that it's just a job. There is so much more to life.
  - sbarre 3y ago
    Amen to that. Work to live, don't live to work.
- ibnit520m 3y ago
  [dead]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- broast 3y ago
  To say it's "personality" is a little passive aggressively degrading. These opportunities are not accessible or sensible to everyone all the time.
  - onethought 3y ago
    I think you misread my intent. I was saying it could be personality of cynicism (which is fine) and nothing to do with the job.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- ijot490mp 3y ago
  [flagged]
- anon291 3y ago
  > There is a world you could be working in a place where you are more passionate and less cynical. The idea that if you're passionate about something you won't have any complaints about it or enjoy it 100% of the time is unhealthy. Most people realize that there's always an element of 'grind' to any task. You could be the most passionate person in the world, but I can guarantee that something about your passion will annoy you slightly. That's just being human
  - onethought 3y ago
    I don’t disagree. Sorry I feel people have misread a lot more malice into my comment than I intended. I felt sympathy for the OP not superiority.
j_french 3y ago
I didn't pick up disdain or displeasure from your original message, and I didn't feel bad for you. I felt good for you! I thought "here's someone like me, who's making a decent living in a nice job, but who has a good sense of perspective and isn't getting caught up in the inane irrelevant trivialities of the tech workplace that are ultimately utterly meaningless." You can make a living doing something you enjoy without having to buy into every single aspect of a corporate workplace and without tangling up your identity with your job. Some of us work to live, and are happy doing that. It's not a failure to be not totally consumed with your career.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
bumby 3y ago
Tbf to u/cj, there's a few things you mentioned that would lead one to believe you aren't fulfilled with your job (which, I think, is an important distinction from being 'happy' with one's job). If 'objective one is to get paid' it comes across as primarily a monetary transaction. That's generally not how the people I know who are really fulfilled in their careers look at it. Sure, pay is an important part, but they also really value aspects like a sense of purpose, the camaraderie of working on a good team, and being able to meaningfully contribute, amongst others. "One day the fucks will run out." You say this as a point about disconnecting, but you can disconnect while still "having fucks" about your job. Your life doesn't have to revolve around your job, but I don't want to work with a bunch of people who don't really care about what they are doing. You talk about how you spend remote meetings doing other not-work-related things. I get that meetings can be boring or of little value at times. In those times, ideally, I would prefer someone be honest and say the meeting is of little value and go do something more productive. At the least, I would like them working on something of value to the group while occasionally checking in. You wouldn't act this way in person, so I don't understand why you think it would be ok to do so remotely, other than it's because you can get away with it. Again, that makes it more transactional than contributory. I could go on with the other points, but all that is to say, I don't think u/cj was completely off with their comment.
- dasil003 3y ago
  I was going to make the same points. Some of these are frustrated and cynical dismissals that may represent reality sometimes, but are counterproductive when taken axiomatically. For instance, “estimates are lies” fails to acknowledge that planning must still be done in the face of uncertainty, and engineering is the best equipped to do this. The last thing you want is for the pointy hairs to just start pulling deadlines out of thin air. But recognize it’s not about putting in time, it’s about helping the business plan and setting up the team to build things the right way. If you do this well, everyone wins, but it does require the ability to work smoothly with people who don’t share your same expertise and not treat them like idiots.
  - codr7 3y ago
    Planning doesn't mean estimation though; we all know it's just guesswork, and basing business decisions on guesswork is madness. On top of that it's a lot of wasted time and effort. Milestones and projections is a much more constructive approach, simply tracking the number of tasks in your backlog over time will give you an increasingly correct projection of when the project will be finished. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVBlnCTu9Ms https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVBlnCTu9Ms

by baz00 3y ago

onethought 3y ago

Right, but you are cynical and dispassionate. There is a world you could be working in a place where you are more passionate and less cynical. (This could be more personality than experience though, so I agree it could be a misread)

baz00 3y ago
I am passionate about the things I'm interested in, not all the unnecessary fluff around them :)
d4mi3n 3y ago
Not everyone needs to be passionate about the day job. Being present, competent, and reliable is enough. I’d personally go on to say that it’s risky to put too much emotional investment into something you don’t own/control. I prefer to invest my passion in things outside of my day job. Working is fine, but it’s a means to an end to fuel more meaningful things. We don’t live to work.
- pseudoramble 3y ago
  "I’d personally go on to say that it’s risky to put too much emotional investment into something you don’t own/control." Bingo! This is exactly what happened to me. What I learned is that, even in a great environment where there was a ton of latitude to have ownership of technical details and even product details, it's still contained within the broader context of a business. That business has interest in the thing you're working on while it's a factor in creating value, and when it becomes time to change focus onto other things, it will generally do that without much hesitation. I've been burned by this multiple times. Eventually it clicked for me in the way you phrased it. So I show up and do what I can, bring my expertise as much as I can, gauge where the limits of what I can provide are, and keep a healthy distance mentally otherwise. One other note - you can still be passionate about software and not one specific day job. You can still work on other projects and explore ideas as much as you want. It's just that that's a separate thing from work. Dedicate time and space separately for that IMO.
  - d4mi3n 3y ago
    > One other note - you can still be passionate about software and not one specific day job. You can still work on other projects and explore ideas as much as you want. It's just that that's a separate thing from work. Dedicate time and space separately for that IMO. This is what I was trying to get at and you've phrased it beautifully. Thank you.
jyounker 3y ago
After 30 years in the job, I say that the poster you're responding to is just realistic. I love my job. I love what I do, but it's worth remembering that it's just a job. There is so much more to life.
- sbarre 3y ago
  Amen to that. Work to live, don't live to work.
ibnit520m 3y ago
[dead]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
broast 3y ago
To say it's "personality" is a little passive aggressively degrading. These opportunities are not accessible or sensible to everyone all the time.
- onethought 3y ago
  I think you misread my intent. I was saying it could be personality of cynicism (which is fine) and nothing to do with the job.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ijot490mp 3y ago
[flagged]
anon291 3y ago
> There is a world you could be working in a place where you are more passionate and less cynical. The idea that if you're passionate about something you won't have any complaints about it or enjoy it 100% of the time is unhealthy. Most people realize that there's always an element of 'grind' to any task. You could be the most passionate person in the world, but I can guarantee that something about your passion will annoy you slightly. That's just being human
- onethought 3y ago
  I don’t disagree. Sorry I feel people have misread a lot more malice into my comment than I intended. I felt sympathy for the OP not superiority.

j_french 3y ago

I didn't pick up disdain or displeasure from your original message, and I didn't feel bad for you. I felt good for you! I thought "here's someone like me, who's making a decent living in a nice job, but who has a good sense of perspective and isn't getting caught up in the inane irrelevant trivialities of the tech workplace that are ultimately utterly meaningless." You can make a living doing something you enjoy without having to buy into every single aspect of a corporate workplace and without tangling up your identity with your job. Some of us work to live, and are happy doing that. It's not a failure to be not totally consumed with your career.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

bumby 3y ago

Tbf to u/cj, there's a few things you mentioned that would lead one to believe you aren't fulfilled with your job (which, I think, is an important distinction from being 'happy' with one's job). If 'objective one is to get paid' it comes across as primarily a monetary transaction. That's generally not how the people I know who are really fulfilled in their careers look at it. Sure, pay is an important part, but they also really value aspects like a sense of purpose, the camaraderie of working on a good team, and being able to meaningfully contribute, amongst others. "One day the fucks will run out." You say this as a point about disconnecting, but you can disconnect while still "having fucks" about your job. Your life doesn't have to revolve around your job, but I don't want to work with a bunch of people who don't really care about what they are doing. You talk about how you spend remote meetings doing other not-work-related things. I get that meetings can be boring or of little value at times. In those times, ideally, I would prefer someone be honest and say the meeting is of little value and go do something more productive. At the least, I would like them working on something of value to the group while occasionally checking in. You wouldn't act this way in person, so I don't understand why you think it would be ok to do so remotely, other than it's because you can get away with it. Again, that makes it more transactional than contributory. I could go on with the other points, but all that is to say, I don't think u/cj was completely off with their comment.

dasil003 3y ago
I was going to make the same points. Some of these are frustrated and cynical dismissals that may represent reality sometimes, but are counterproductive when taken axiomatically. For instance, “estimates are lies” fails to acknowledge that planning must still be done in the face of uncertainty, and engineering is the best equipped to do this. The last thing you want is for the pointy hairs to just start pulling deadlines out of thin air. But recognize it’s not about putting in time, it’s about helping the business plan and setting up the team to build things the right way. If you do this well, everyone wins, but it does require the ability to work smoothly with people who don’t share your same expertise and not treat them like idiots.
- codr7 3y ago
  Planning doesn't mean estimation though; we all know it's just guesswork, and basing business decisions on guesswork is madness. On top of that it's a lot of wasted time and effort. Milestones and projections is a much more constructive approach, simply tracking the number of tasks in your backlog over time will give you an increasingly correct projection of when the project will be finished. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVBlnCTu9Ms https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVBlnCTu9Ms