6 ms·

How so? What's your day-to-day experience?

dharmab 3y ago
My day to day experience is that I regularly need over 30GB of RAM for simulation and media workflows, and I don't use my Macs for them because PC RAM is so much cheaper.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  Unfortunely for them, Apple has been positioning themselves outside of a workstation domain that now better served with Linux/Windows workflows. The only creators left on the ecosystem are the ones targeting iDevices.
  - dangus 3y ago
    Which Windows or Linux systems have discrete-class GPUs that can address up to 128 GB of RAM on a laptop, or 192GB for a desktop? I assume for a VRAM-heavy workflow, a Mac might be a good choice, and considering that the M3 Max benchmarks close to the laptop 4080 you’ve basically got the second best laptop SKU on the market with dramatically better power and battery life figures. If you care even a little bit about overall portability Apple is offering a product that you can’t buy from anyone else at any price. Considering that something like 80% of PC sales are laptops that’s no joke. I haven’t had an employer issue me a desktop PC since 2012.
    - pjmlp 3y ago
      Plenty as that is what desktop PCs with discrete graphics cards are for, the market once upon a time Mac Pro was for. Now it can only take audio cards. As for laptops, here is one with 128 GB DDR5 and NVIDIA RTX 5000 Ada (16GB GDDR6 VRAM). https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadp/thinkpad-p16-gen-2-(16-inch-intel)/len101t0069#tech_specs https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadp/th...
      - foldr 3y ago
        > GPUs that can address up to 128 GB of RAM
        pjmlp 3y ago
        Except they don't, they use unified shared memory. If you want a 128GB GPU, that is only possible with dedicated cards, those used in professional graphics workstations, none of them running macOS. https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/data-center/h100/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/data-center/h100/
        foldr 3y ago
        >Except they don't, they use unified shared memory. Yes, which is what allows the GPU to address all 128GB of the available RAM! This makes it possible to do lots of things that the laptop you linked to can't do. >If you want a 128GB GPU, that is only possible with [cards used in professional graphics workstations] That is exactly the point. But I think you know that.
        pjmlp 3y ago
        Good luck making all memory being consumed by the GPU, without anything left for the OS. Apple no longer cares about graphical workstations market, that is the point. Lets see how much of those GPUs of yours make into VFX reference platform standard, for an example.
        foldr 3y ago
        You're missing the original poster's point. They're not talking about graphical workstations. They said that "if you care even a little bit about overall portability Apple is offering a product that you can’t buy from anyone else at any price." A laptop with a 16GB GPU isn't a counterexample to this claim. > Good luck making all memory being consumed by the GPU, without anything left for the OS. Obviously, given 128GB total, you can allocate a lot more than 16GB for the GPU before you're likely to start running out of RAM for other things.
- dangus 3y ago
  The “components per dollar” crowd hasn’t been an Apple user since the Apple II. There are other considerations for buying a system besides the cost of a particular component. For example, let’s say your maximum budget is $4000, and you need 64GB of RAM to run those simulations. Which laptop will do so for the longest while on battery? Which laptop will make the least heat and noise? Which one is easiest to carry around? Which one can be used with a smaller power brick? Which one feels best to touch and use? If my maximum budget for a car is $50,000, should I buy the Kia that has the most features per dollar, should buy a Toyota for the reliability, or should I buy a Mercedes for the quiet and luxurious cabin? All of these brands have vehicles for $50,000 or less, so the answer all depends on my priorities. We all know that RAM is what pads Apple’s profit margins but they're selling a solution, not a bucket of components.
  - bergen 3y ago
    This is not 100% true, in 2008 you could have a MB/P and upgrade the RAM manually to have better price/performance then most other laptop manufacturers. Today this looks different looking at the "components per dollar" ratio due to the impossibility to swap yourself. > For example, let’s say your maximum budget is $4000, and you need 64GB of RAM to run those simulations I can get a lenovo for nearly half the price, and it feels good, and runs long enough. The other things are nice to have, but weight and heat come with the territory, if I buy a simulation monster I don't buy a small leightweight lifestyle laptop.
  - dharmab 3y ago
    When I bought a Mac around 2015, they were quite competitive in certain ranges if you included a comparable display.
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    Until the last edition of Mac Pro, at least the components workstation crowd was still catered for. Now just like OS X Server, not really markets that are relevant for Apple's business. It is turning into consumer electronics.
dTal 3y ago
My day-to-day experience is that a 12 gigabyte dataset will not fit into 8 gigabytes of RAM no matter whose logo is on the case. A byte is a byte.

My day to day experience is that I regularly need over 30GB of RAM for simulation and media workflows, and I don't use my Macs for them because PC RAM is so much cheaper.

pjmlp 3y ago
Unfortunely for them, Apple has been positioning themselves outside of a workstation domain that now better served with Linux/Windows workflows. The only creators left on the ecosystem are the ones targeting iDevices.
- dangus 3y ago
  Which Windows or Linux systems have discrete-class GPUs that can address up to 128 GB of RAM on a laptop, or 192GB for a desktop? I assume for a VRAM-heavy workflow, a Mac might be a good choice, and considering that the M3 Max benchmarks close to the laptop 4080 you’ve basically got the second best laptop SKU on the market with dramatically better power and battery life figures. If you care even a little bit about overall portability Apple is offering a product that you can’t buy from anyone else at any price. Considering that something like 80% of PC sales are laptops that’s no joke. I haven’t had an employer issue me a desktop PC since 2012.
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    Plenty as that is what desktop PCs with discrete graphics cards are for, the market once upon a time Mac Pro was for. Now it can only take audio cards. As for laptops, here is one with 128 GB DDR5 and NVIDIA RTX 5000 Ada (16GB GDDR6 VRAM). https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadp/thinkpad-p16-gen-2-(16-inch-intel)/len101t0069#tech_specs https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadp/th...
    - foldr 3y ago
      > GPUs that can address up to 128 GB of RAM
      - pjmlp 3y ago
        Except they don't, they use unified shared memory. If you want a 128GB GPU, that is only possible with dedicated cards, those used in professional graphics workstations, none of them running macOS. https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/data-center/h100/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/data-center/h100/
        foldr 3y ago
        >Except they don't, they use unified shared memory. Yes, which is what allows the GPU to address all 128GB of the available RAM! This makes it possible to do lots of things that the laptop you linked to can't do. >If you want a 128GB GPU, that is only possible with [cards used in professional graphics workstations] That is exactly the point. But I think you know that.
        pjmlp 3y ago
        Good luck making all memory being consumed by the GPU, without anything left for the OS. Apple no longer cares about graphical workstations market, that is the point. Lets see how much of those GPUs of yours make into VFX reference platform standard, for an example.
        foldr 3y ago
        You're missing the original poster's point. They're not talking about graphical workstations. They said that "if you care even a little bit about overall portability Apple is offering a product that you can’t buy from anyone else at any price." A laptop with a 16GB GPU isn't a counterexample to this claim. > Good luck making all memory being consumed by the GPU, without anything left for the OS. Obviously, given 128GB total, you can allocate a lot more than 16GB for the GPU before you're likely to start running out of RAM for other things.
dangus 3y ago
The “components per dollar” crowd hasn’t been an Apple user since the Apple II. There are other considerations for buying a system besides the cost of a particular component. For example, let’s say your maximum budget is $4000, and you need 64GB of RAM to run those simulations. Which laptop will do so for the longest while on battery? Which laptop will make the least heat and noise? Which one is easiest to carry around? Which one can be used with a smaller power brick? Which one feels best to touch and use? If my maximum budget for a car is $50,000, should I buy the Kia that has the most features per dollar, should buy a Toyota for the reliability, or should I buy a Mercedes for the quiet and luxurious cabin? All of these brands have vehicles for $50,000 or less, so the answer all depends on my priorities. We all know that RAM is what pads Apple’s profit margins but they're selling a solution, not a bucket of components.
- bergen 3y ago
  This is not 100% true, in 2008 you could have a MB/P and upgrade the RAM manually to have better price/performance then most other laptop manufacturers. Today this looks different looking at the "components per dollar" ratio due to the impossibility to swap yourself. > For example, let’s say your maximum budget is $4000, and you need 64GB of RAM to run those simulations I can get a lenovo for nearly half the price, and it feels good, and runs long enough. The other things are nice to have, but weight and heat come with the territory, if I buy a simulation monster I don't buy a small leightweight lifestyle laptop.
- dharmab 3y ago
  When I bought a Mac around 2015, they were quite competitive in certain ranges if you included a comparable display.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  Until the last edition of Mac Pro, at least the components workstation crowd was still catered for. Now just like OS X Server, not really markets that are relevant for Apple's business. It is turning into consumer electronics.

dTal 3y ago

My day-to-day experience is that a 12 gigabyte dataset will not fit into 8 gigabytes of RAM no matter whose logo is on the case. A byte is a byte.