3 ms·

I think "death panels" were a propaganda thing unique to the USA. They don't actually exist anywhere (else) afaik.

by Kim_Bruning 3y ago

theGnuMe 3y ago
They exist in the UK and Canada where they will deny treatments for similar reasons or if deemed too expensive.
- Kim_Bruning 3y ago
  Do you have a reliable source? (edit: I found a speech by Stephen Hawking on the matter: https://www.hawking.org.uk/in-words/speeches/speech-1 https://www.hawking.org.uk/in-words/speeches/speech-1 Quick summary: At the start of the speech he refutes a claim that death panels exist in the UK NHS and that they would have let him die. Of course the strongest refutation is the fact that he was at the time -in fact- quite alive; thanks to the NHS. )
  - wpasc 3y ago
    https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2016/dec/29/breast-cancer-drug-kadcyla-rejected-for-nhs-use-on-cost-benefit-grounds https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2016/dec/29/breast-cance... It’s not disputed nor unknown that a variety of expensive/newer cancer treatments are not payed for by the NHS. I posted one example but there are many
  - evandijk70 3y ago
    Bevacizumab (brand name avastin) for metastatic colorectal cancer (standard of care in the Netherlands, approved by the FDA and EMA and recommended by the consensus guidelines of ESMO https://www.esmo.org/guidelines/guidelines-by-topic/esmo-clinical-practice-guidelines-gastrointestinal-cancers/clinical-practice-guideline-metastatic-colorectal-cancer https://www.esmo.org/guidelines/guidelines-by-topic/esmo-cli...) and is a well known example. See the response of parliament to a petition to change it now that the patent has expired. NHS will still not fund it and cites cost as an important factor https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/616742?reveal_response=yes https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/616742?reveal_respo... . I would note that since funds are limited, any system needs some kind of cost-benefit analysis for drugs to ensure affordability of care. Making this cost-benefit analysis central, transparant, and explicit is probably the best way to do it.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
paulddraper 3y ago
I mean....they have to. At some level, the reward-to-risk ratio is too low.
robertjpayne 3y ago
They do in the sense that socialised medicine wont cover all treatments. In New Zealand some things are not "funded" but you can still get private cover to extend to cover state of the art treatments and be able to skip the queue. The difference is, that insurance costs a fraction of what it costs in the USA because the basics are all covered and the cost of providing state of the art care is drastically reduced since the hospital facilities/bed are still covered publicly.

I think "death panels" were a propaganda thing unique to the USA. They don't actually exist anywhere (else) afaik.

theGnuMe 3y ago

They exist in the UK and Canada where they will deny treatments for similar reasons or if deemed too expensive.

Kim_Bruning 3y ago
Do you have a reliable source? (edit: I found a speech by Stephen Hawking on the matter: https://www.hawking.org.uk/in-words/speeches/speech-1 https://www.hawking.org.uk/in-words/speeches/speech-1 Quick summary: At the start of the speech he refutes a claim that death panels exist in the UK NHS and that they would have let him die. Of course the strongest refutation is the fact that he was at the time -in fact- quite alive; thanks to the NHS. )
- wpasc 3y ago
  https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2016/dec/29/breast-cancer-drug-kadcyla-rejected-for-nhs-use-on-cost-benefit-grounds https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2016/dec/29/breast-cance... It’s not disputed nor unknown that a variety of expensive/newer cancer treatments are not payed for by the NHS. I posted one example but there are many
- evandijk70 3y ago
  Bevacizumab (brand name avastin) for metastatic colorectal cancer (standard of care in the Netherlands, approved by the FDA and EMA and recommended by the consensus guidelines of ESMO https://www.esmo.org/guidelines/guidelines-by-topic/esmo-clinical-practice-guidelines-gastrointestinal-cancers/clinical-practice-guideline-metastatic-colorectal-cancer https://www.esmo.org/guidelines/guidelines-by-topic/esmo-cli...) and is a well known example. See the response of parliament to a petition to change it now that the patent has expired. NHS will still not fund it and cites cost as an important factor https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/616742?reveal_response=yes https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/616742?reveal_respo... . I would note that since funds are limited, any system needs some kind of cost-benefit analysis for drugs to ensure affordability of care. Making this cost-benefit analysis central, transparant, and explicit is probably the best way to do it.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

paulddraper 3y ago

I mean....they have to. At some level, the reward-to-risk ratio is too low.

robertjpayne 3y ago

They do in the sense that socialised medicine wont cover all treatments. In New Zealand some things are not "funded" but you can still get private cover to extend to cover state of the art treatments and be able to skip the queue. The difference is, that insurance costs a fraction of what it costs in the USA because the basics are all covered and the cost of providing state of the art care is drastically reduced since the hospital facilities/bed are still covered publicly.