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No, that doesn't measure that they are doing what we want them to do. That measures how effectively they can convince us that the other candidate would be worse

No, that doesn't measure that they are doing what we want them to do. That measures how effectively they can convince us that the other candidate would be worse, so you should vote for the lesser evil. On most topics, there is NO candidate who is for doing things outside of the current Overton window. If, for example, you don't like our AML laws, you probably don't have a viable candidate on the ballot who wants to change our AML laws. Therefore your vote can't show your support for changing AML laws.

dragonwriter 3y ago
> On most topics, there is NO candidate who is for doing things outside of the current Overton window. Sure there is. They aren't likely to be a major party candidate, but then, that's pretty much true by the definition of the Overton window -- if it is supported enough to be a tolerable position for a major party candidate that isn't an extreme outlier within the party, then it is not outside the range of acceptability than the Overton Window refers to. (Of course, the major point of the Overton Window is that, in a system with elected lawmakers, laws largely aren't set by lawmakers preferences, but by forces, largely external to lawmakers -- including both concentrated interest groups and grassroots activists -- that shift the Overton Window and set the bounds for what it is practical for lawmakers to support.)
pdonis 3y ago
> that doesn't measure that they are doing what we want them to do. That measures how effectively they can convince us that the other candidate would be worse If we are convinced, then they are doing what we want them to do--because they convinced us that there is no point in wanting anything else. > On most topics, there is NO candidate who is for doing things outside of the current Overton window. Yes, but what is the Overton window? It's the range of policies that most people will accept. So by definition only policies within the Overton window can possibly be what the people (or at least a majority of us) want.
- immibis 3y ago
  It's actually the range of policies that we won't literally riot about if they push on us.
  - pdonis 3y ago
    No, that we won't vote them out of office (or refuse to vote them into office) about. Which is functionally equivalent to "accept".
    - immibis 3y ago
      Voting them out of office doesn't matter. Their opponent supports the same policies.

dragonwriter 3y ago

> On most topics, there is NO candidate who is for doing things outside of the current Overton window. Sure there is. They aren't likely to be a major party candidate, but then, that's pretty much true by the definition of the Overton window -- if it is supported enough to be a tolerable position for a major party candidate that isn't an extreme outlier within the party, then it is not outside the range of acceptability than the Overton Window refers to. (Of course, the major point of the Overton Window is that, in a system with elected lawmakers, laws largely aren't set by lawmakers preferences, but by forces, largely external to lawmakers -- including both concentrated interest groups and grassroots activists -- that shift the Overton Window and set the bounds for what it is practical for lawmakers to support.)

pdonis 3y ago

> that doesn't measure that they are doing what we want them to do. That measures how effectively they can convince us that the other candidate would be worse If we are convinced, then they are doing what we want them to do--because they convinced us that there is no point in wanting anything else. > On most topics, there is NO candidate who is for doing things outside of the current Overton window. Yes, but what is the Overton window? It's the range of policies that most people will accept. So by definition only policies within the Overton window can possibly be what the people (or at least a majority of us) want.

immibis 3y ago
It's actually the range of policies that we won't literally riot about if they push on us.
- pdonis 3y ago
  No, that we won't vote them out of office (or refuse to vote them into office) about. Which is functionally equivalent to "accept".
  - immibis 3y ago
    Voting them out of office doesn't matter. Their opponent supports the same policies.