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The token "ethic" didn't have a single hit on the page. The mind in that brain could be undergoing tremendous stress. Also didn't talk about level of consciousn

The token "ethic" didn't have a single hit on the page. The mind in that brain could be undergoing tremendous stress. Also didn't talk about level of consciousness. :(

readams 3y ago
The brain was anesthetized
- jwestbury 3y ago
  Consciousness is not especially well-understood, and there's some evidence that even under general anaesthesia, humans experience disconnected consciousness (i.e., consciousness without a perception of environment). It's not unreasonable to think this may be true in pigs, as well.
upwardbound 3y ago
You're right, it doesn't appear in the actual paper [ https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-39344-7 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-39344-7 ] either, except for this pathetic disclaimer: Ethics declarations: Competing interests The authors declare no competing interests. There are also no occurrences of the terms "society", "moral", "distress", or "stress". I'm surprised this work got approval from the Institutional Animal Care & Use Committee. https://olaw.nih.gov/resources/tutorials/iacufoot.htm https://olaw.nih.gov/resources/tutorials/iacufoot.htm Criteria for IACUC Review and Approval of Protocols: ... d. The living conditions of animals will be appropriate for their species and contribute to their health and comfort. ... I can hardly see how this living brain is having living conditions appropriate to the Sus domesticus (domesticated pig) species. The living conditions are totally unnatural and seem to be in direct violation of item d of the IACUC approval criteria.
- penteract 3y ago
  Given the rest of criterion (d), which discusses feeding and housing, I'd assume "living conditions" refer to the times when the animal is not actively being experimented on. Sections (a) and (b) do refer to experimental procedures and may require experimenters to use anaesthesia, which the paper mentions several times.
  - upwardbound 3y ago
    Perhaps, and I think you're probably right about the "spirit of the law", but I would hope that the "letter of the law" would still hold weight and have to be applied here.
I_Am_Nous 3y ago
If they have bypassed the body entirely, there will at least be reduced hormonal stressors such as adrenaline since those are mostly created in the body on the adrenal glands. Small comfort though as plenty of other stuff is made in the brain.
heywoodlh 3y ago
> level of consciousness This was exactly my wondering, as well. It sounds like a really interesting sci-fi horror novel concept to be kept conscious as a brain but unable to interact with the world at all. The idea of being kept alive indefinitely in that state sounds like a fate worse than death. Also has me wondering: what kind of consciousness is even theoretically possible for a human brain without a body?

The token "ethic" didn't have a single hit on the page. The mind in that brain could be undergoing tremendous stress. Also didn't talk about level of consciousness. :(

readams 3y ago

The brain was anesthetized

jwestbury 3y ago
Consciousness is not especially well-understood, and there's some evidence that even under general anaesthesia, humans experience disconnected consciousness (i.e., consciousness without a perception of environment). It's not unreasonable to think this may be true in pigs, as well.

upwardbound 3y ago

You're right, it doesn't appear in the actual paper [ https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-39344-7 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-39344-7 ] either, except for this pathetic disclaimer: Ethics declarations: Competing interests The authors declare no competing interests. There are also no occurrences of the terms "society", "moral", "distress", or "stress". I'm surprised this work got approval from the Institutional Animal Care & Use Committee. https://olaw.nih.gov/resources/tutorials/iacufoot.htm https://olaw.nih.gov/resources/tutorials/iacufoot.htm Criteria for IACUC Review and Approval of Protocols: ... d. The living conditions of animals will be appropriate for their species and contribute to their health and comfort. ... I can hardly see how this living brain is having living conditions appropriate to the Sus domesticus (domesticated pig) species. The living conditions are totally unnatural and seem to be in direct violation of item d of the IACUC approval criteria.

penteract 3y ago
Given the rest of criterion (d), which discusses feeding and housing, I'd assume "living conditions" refer to the times when the animal is not actively being experimented on. Sections (a) and (b) do refer to experimental procedures and may require experimenters to use anaesthesia, which the paper mentions several times.
- upwardbound 3y ago
  Perhaps, and I think you're probably right about the "spirit of the law", but I would hope that the "letter of the law" would still hold weight and have to be applied here.

I_Am_Nous 3y ago

If they have bypassed the body entirely, there will at least be reduced hormonal stressors such as adrenaline since those are mostly created in the body on the adrenal glands. Small comfort though as plenty of other stuff is made in the brain.

heywoodlh 3y ago

> level of consciousness This was exactly my wondering, as well. It sounds like a really interesting sci-fi horror novel concept to be kept conscious as a brain but unable to interact with the world at all. The idea of being kept alive indefinitely in that state sounds like a fate worse than death. Also has me wondering: what kind of consciousness is even theoretically possible for a human brain without a body?