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>Yeah, and this is exactly the problem with standards like MISRA C and the reason I will never work on projects like this ever again. I think it's unfair to po

>Yeah, and this is exactly the problem with standards like MISRA C and the reason I will never work on projects like this ever again. I think it's unfair to point the problem as being with MISRA. MISRA doesn't force you to be 100% compliant with everything there, you're free to pick and choose what you think makes sense for your project and use case and to have your own exception. It's just a set of guidelines, that's it.. The real problem is people(mangers) who don't understand it and want 100% compliance at all cost just because it sounds good and they feel it covers their ass ("nobody ever got fired for being 100% MISRA compliant" /s), instead of investing dev brainstorming time in pruning the list and having a sane review and approval process for exceptions. It's a problem with moving from engineering mentality to bodyshop mentality.

bluGill 3y ago
100% is easy to measure and report on. As soon as you allow even one exception it is really hard to figure out if the exception is really needed, or it is just a bad programmer being lazy at the expense of quality. Management should not have to figure that question out.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >it is really hard to figure out if the exception is really needed, or it is just a bad programmer being lazy at the expense of quality That's exactly why you have (in self respecting companies) a sane internal standard for exceptions with workshops and trainings, and experienced senior devs review the exception requests, precisely to make sure it's never a lazy dev or junior.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    I've worked with some really bad senior devs, and some great junior devs who couldn't do things right because of those senior devs
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      In Embedded C?
      - bluGill 3y ago
        Yes. Companies not known for software can be really bad as the bosses don't know how bad the senior staff is
        FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        Never seen such a case. Was it a body shop, semiconductor company, or someone like Google where they put JS devs in charge of writing C? I worked in an automotive and IOT and the difference between juniors and seniors there was like between us and John Carmack. As a former embedded C dev I really can't fathom being better than seniors in this gig who have been in the trenches since you can't self study the kind of stuff you encounter in production devices.
        bluGill 3y ago
        To be clear, most senior developers are much better than juniors. However there is a tiny minority that is not.

bluGill 3y ago

100% is easy to measure and report on. As soon as you allow even one exception it is really hard to figure out if the exception is really needed, or it is just a bad programmer being lazy at the expense of quality. Management should not have to figure that question out.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
>it is really hard to figure out if the exception is really needed, or it is just a bad programmer being lazy at the expense of quality That's exactly why you have (in self respecting companies) a sane internal standard for exceptions with workshops and trainings, and experienced senior devs review the exception requests, precisely to make sure it's never a lazy dev or junior.
- bluGill 3y ago
  I've worked with some really bad senior devs, and some great junior devs who couldn't do things right because of those senior devs
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    In Embedded C?
    - bluGill 3y ago
      Yes. Companies not known for software can be really bad as the bosses don't know how bad the senior staff is
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        Never seen such a case. Was it a body shop, semiconductor company, or someone like Google where they put JS devs in charge of writing C? I worked in an automotive and IOT and the difference between juniors and seniors there was like between us and John Carmack. As a former embedded C dev I really can't fathom being better than seniors in this gig who have been in the trenches since you can't self study the kind of stuff you encounter in production devices.
        bluGill 3y ago
        To be clear, most senior developers are much better than juniors. However there is a tiny minority that is not.