6 ms·

> Oooh, I would _absolutely_ buy one of these to tow with. From an outsider, that's the thing that baffles me the most about the current state of the whole wor

by rewmie 3y ago

> Oooh, I would _absolutely_ buy one of these to tow with. From an outsider, that's the thing that baffles me the most about the current state of the whole world's auto industry. Sometimes it seems that all auto makers are colluding to prevent any competition based on price, and are instead invested in forcing this notion that the only possible consumer pressure is on seeking luxury features like onboard computers, touchscreens, media centers, etc etc. A vehicle's primary use is take people and objects from point A to B, and do so reliably and economically. The automotive industry is the textbook example of economy of scale. Why are we still seeing low-end cars being sold for small fortunes?

swatcoder 3y ago
> A vehicle's primary use is take people and objects from point A to B, and do so reliably Car longevity increased a ton in the last several decades years, and so "something that moves" isn't as central a motivation for new car sales anymore. If they just need something that moves, buyers can find countless used cars that still run and will keep doing so for hundreds of thousands of more miles. It's tough to compete in that space and come away with a worthwhile margin on top of fresh design and manufacturing costs. So manufacturers, who don't want to scale down sales and production, try to entice buyers with shiny things that aren't available on old models and focus on higher price tiers. And that it coincides with booming tech culture and its fashion/impulse-driven purchase cycles makes it that much easier for them.
- DontchaKnowit 3y ago
  Dude the delta between new and used cars right now is virtually nothing. You can get a 2012 tacoma with 200k miles on it for like 28k or a brand new 2023 tacoma for 35k. New is a better deal just based on the projected mechanical life of the car. Dont need fancy features to sell it
  - callalex 3y ago
    The projected longevity of trucks is actually going back down again, which is why the older ones are holding value. The modern ones are full to the brim with computer/DRM enforced anti-repair measures so that the dealership can profiteer.
  - tomcam 3y ago
    Try actually finding that new Tacoma
    - DontchaKnowit 3y ago
      Well, I did actually, but it was a fluke, someone had pre-ordered it then backed out when it arrived
      - tomcam 3y ago
        Good to be you!
- rewmie 3y ago
  > Car longevity increased a ton in the last several decades years, and so "something that moves" isn't as central a motivation for new car sales anymore. I don't think this is a valid take. Robustness is absolutely not the reason why cars are being heavily marketed based on luxury extras, even on base models. > If they just need something that moves, buyers can find countless used cars that still run and will keep doing so for hundreds of thousands of more miles. This is a very silly and absurd take. Cars devalue from their dealer price, which is justified based on all these useless luxury features that no one is able to avoid by design. Used cars might be cheaper than brand new models, but they are by no means cheap.
avar 3y ago
The reason is government regulation. I'm not saying that increased safety and emission standard are bad, but they're the main thing driving up car prices. How can I assert that with confidence? Because all you need to do is to look up what the cars that are illegal to sell in the US, EU and countries that are similarly regulated. E.g. South Africa has pickup trucks starting at around $15k, new: https://briefly.co.za/facts-lifehacks/top/138901-12-cheapest-single-cab-bakkies-south-africa/ https://briefly.co.za/facts-lifehacks/top/138901-12-cheapest...
- rewmie 3y ago
  > The reason is government regulation. I'm not saying that increased safety and emission standard are bad, but they're the main thing driving up car prices. I don't think that is remotely true. You're commenting on a discussion on Toyota launching a $10k pickup, and there is absolutely no suggestion this price is achieved by ignoring regulation.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    the point is that this truck will never see sale in the USA- It would be illegal to sell and not meet standards. Regulations are different by country, so you see different cars at different price points. It is also illegal to import this car (again regulation), so that impacts price as well

by rewmie 3y ago

swatcoder 3y ago

> A vehicle's primary use is take people and objects from point A to B, and do so reliably Car longevity increased a ton in the last several decades years, and so "something that moves" isn't as central a motivation for new car sales anymore. If they just need something that moves, buyers can find countless used cars that still run and will keep doing so for hundreds of thousands of more miles. It's tough to compete in that space and come away with a worthwhile margin on top of fresh design and manufacturing costs. So manufacturers, who don't want to scale down sales and production, try to entice buyers with shiny things that aren't available on old models and focus on higher price tiers. And that it coincides with booming tech culture and its fashion/impulse-driven purchase cycles makes it that much easier for them.

DontchaKnowit 3y ago
Dude the delta between new and used cars right now is virtually nothing. You can get a 2012 tacoma with 200k miles on it for like 28k or a brand new 2023 tacoma for 35k. New is a better deal just based on the projected mechanical life of the car. Dont need fancy features to sell it
- callalex 3y ago
  The projected longevity of trucks is actually going back down again, which is why the older ones are holding value. The modern ones are full to the brim with computer/DRM enforced anti-repair measures so that the dealership can profiteer.
- tomcam 3y ago
  Try actually finding that new Tacoma
  - DontchaKnowit 3y ago
    Well, I did actually, but it was a fluke, someone had pre-ordered it then backed out when it arrived
    - tomcam 3y ago
      Good to be you!
rewmie 3y ago
> Car longevity increased a ton in the last several decades years, and so "something that moves" isn't as central a motivation for new car sales anymore. I don't think this is a valid take. Robustness is absolutely not the reason why cars are being heavily marketed based on luxury extras, even on base models. > If they just need something that moves, buyers can find countless used cars that still run and will keep doing so for hundreds of thousands of more miles. This is a very silly and absurd take. Cars devalue from their dealer price, which is justified based on all these useless luxury features that no one is able to avoid by design. Used cars might be cheaper than brand new models, but they are by no means cheap.

avar 3y ago

The reason is government regulation. I'm not saying that increased safety and emission standard are bad, but they're the main thing driving up car prices. How can I assert that with confidence? Because all you need to do is to look up what the cars that are illegal to sell in the US, EU and countries that are similarly regulated. E.g. South Africa has pickup trucks starting at around $15k, new: https://briefly.co.za/facts-lifehacks/top/138901-12-cheapest-single-cab-bakkies-south-africa/ https://briefly.co.za/facts-lifehacks/top/138901-12-cheapest...

rewmie 3y ago
> The reason is government regulation. I'm not saying that increased safety and emission standard are bad, but they're the main thing driving up car prices. I don't think that is remotely true. You're commenting on a discussion on Toyota launching a $10k pickup, and there is absolutely no suggestion this price is achieved by ignoring regulation.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  the point is that this truck will never see sale in the USA- It would be illegal to sell and not meet standards. Regulations are different by country, so you see different cars at different price points. It is also illegal to import this car (again regulation), so that impacts price as well