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Seeing drone dropped grenades everywhere in Ukraine has made me worried about normalized "drone drop murders" spreading to the rest of the world. With widely av

Seeing drone dropped grenades everywhere in Ukraine has made me worried about normalized "drone drop murders" spreading to the rest of the world. With widely available addresses gang violence, political killings, and even online flamewar escalations will become much much uglier. Who needs to do a driveby shooting if you could drop a homemade bomb from a McDonalds bathroom 20 miles away using some jailbroken drone? Violence isn't the only issue either -- Imagine what will happen when courts catch up to the internet age. Get ready for the normalization of digging through decades of comment history to character assassinate people on a whim. This is getting really bad. I don't think society at large is ready for the coming nightmare. -- We need immediate privacy reforms to: 1. Fine companies for requiring unneeded personal data. Fine companies for collecting addresses and numbers when they don't need them. Address + number specifically should be dumped when no longer needed. 2. Fully regulate+audit data-based industries to confirm that anonymized user profiles are truly anonymous. 3. Raise the legal bar allowing usage of personal data to harm an individual. Lawyers and employers shouldn't be able to find+splice your Youtube comment history to try and character assassinate you outside of some felony-tier criminal case.

fusslo 3y ago
are explosives as easy to get as bullets & guns where you live?
- permo-w 3y ago
  explosives are a 10 minute youtube video away
- wutwutwat 3y ago
  Wait until someone puts a gun on a drone and shoots up a concert from states away, or another country...
  - micromacrofoot 3y ago
    we're not talking about UAVs here though, someone needs to configure the drone very locally
    - wutwutwat 3y ago
      You realize they are using drones that you or I can buy on amazon, to blow up tanks and people in an ongoing war? > The logic was simple, Pharmacist says: Exploding drones cost roughly $400 to make, while a conventional projectile can cost nearly 10 times as much. Even if it requires multiple drones to take out a tank — and sometimes it does — it is still worth it. > But first they had to modify commercial drones with hardware and software to suit the battlefield, enabling them to penetrate deeper behind enemy lines without being detected or jammed. A breakthrough came through the clever use of several drones in unison. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/how-ukraine-soldiers-use-inexpensive-commercial-drones-on-the-battlefield https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/how-ukraine-soldiers-use-... Cell phone w/ 5G and a time investment from a software engineer could make the range limitless. The point is, it's entirely possible to remotely drone strike using shit from amazon if one were so inclined.
      - micromacrofoot 3y ago
        > could make the range limitless do you have an infinite battery technology? no one's crossing international borders with diy assassin drones unless it's like a mile across the canadian or mexican border — much easier to just shoot someone
        wutwutwat 3y ago
        I meant wireless range to control it, not fuel/battery range. You're assuming they intend to fly the drone across an ocean or something to hit a target. We don't fly predator drones across the ocean either, they are transported somewhere via other means, and then deployed to the area needed in a way they have the range to actually hit their target. Leaving something on a building rooftop and flying back home to later operate it is not an impossible idea. Use your imagination, there are many ways. Fedex is a thing too.
- wutwutwat 3y ago
  You can buy Tannerite without an explosive license from the ATF. It's been used in past bombings. Plus, unless they outlaw anything from crude oil, alchohol and the plants used to produce it, gun powder, fireworks, and most chemicals under your kitchen sink, there are thousands of combinations that produce a material that can be used to make explosives. Access or lack of isn't the limiting factor, people's willingness to do it is and always will be the case. Air can make an explosive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannerite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannerite
- I_Am_Nous 3y ago
  I'd sure be upset about a remote Molotov cocktail payload busting through my window and burning my house down. Things don't have to be explosive to be dangerous.
eli 3y ago
Seems like being able to look up people's home address is a pretty minor part of that threat?
- jjkeddo199 3y ago
  At the risk of sounding hyperbolic: Imagine Iranian agents using these address books to track down naval officers in San Diego from across the border in Tijuana. Having a global address book lowers the barrier for hunting people down and hurting them. This is already happening to off-duty Russian officers mowing the lawn at home.
  - yogurtboy 3y ago
    I kind of agree with your sentiment but your final note about murdered Russian officers needs a citation
    - ickelbawd 3y ago
      Literally the first result when searched for: https://nypost.com/2023/08/29/russian-lieutenant-colonel-mowing-lawn-blown-up-by-drone/ https://nypost.com/2023/08/29/russian-lieutenant-colonel-mow... Edit: not the person making the claim, nor am I particularly vested in this story or its validity. But it took me all of 5 seconds to find.
- autoexec 3y ago
  Being able to look up someone's address normally isn't a problem. Extremists and nut jobs being able to compile a list of people whose religion, political views, sexual preferences, medical conditions, and purchase habits makes them a target for violence is the problem. At that point being able to find them (using their street address or even real time geolocation data) becomes a pretty big part of that threat.
cycomanic 3y ago
Sometimes the US perspective of things is completely surreal for me as a European. In a country where you can buy assault rifles with minimal background checks, people worry about addresses being available because someone might be able to look up the address to kill them with a drone and a home made bomb.
- kajecounterhack 3y ago
  > In a country where you can buy assault rifles with minimal background checks, people worry about addresses being available because someone might be able to look up the address to kill them with a drone and a home made bomb. Drones and IUDs may be less traceable than guns and offer even less risk to the user. Currently if you're going to use a gun, you basically have to be suicidal or care zero about the consequences. But that also brings up a good point -- people worry about addresses being available because someone might be able to use a gun and kill them as well. Or hell, just their fists. Doxxing is dangerous, is this not the case in Europe as well?
  - fullspectrumdev 3y ago
    Doxing remains dangerous in Europe, the posters just trying to score cheap points.
    - mikrotikker 3y ago
      Remember that time a bunch of Scandinavian bikers got hold of some Carl Gustovs and used them to explode a rivals building among other things?
  - edot 3y ago
    > Drones and IUDs may be less traceable than guns and offer even less risk to the user. Gotta watch out for those intra-uterine devices - they can take out a city block. ;)
    - kajecounterhack 3y ago
elorant 3y ago
Most of the footage from Ukraine is from flat empty landscape targeting stationary targets. Trying to do the same on an urban environment with moving targets is way more complicated.
rurp 3y ago
Changing posession of personal user data from a financial asset to a liability is probably the most effective thing the government could do in the near term to protect people's information. Companies right now are incentivized to collect tons of personal data because it's worth real money to them and others, and the liabilities mostly fall to the users. If there were heavy financial consequences to leaking personal data then companies would self regulate away a lot of terrible behavior that is currently common.
- ethbr1 3y ago
  Imho, the test should be "Is targeted advertising barely profitable?" It should cost enough to retain personal data that, unless that's your primary business and you're very good at it, it doesn't make financial sense.
krisoft 3y ago
> Who needs to do a driveby shooting if you could drop a homemade bomb from a McDonalds bathroom 20 miles away using some jailbroken drone? Driveby shootings are super easy. Drone bombing someone is way harder. Especially from 20 miles away. I don't see how Ukraine would change that. Getting away with driveby shooting requires about the same amount of faff as getting away with a drone murder. (Because in both cases unless you biff it spectacularly the police is not going to catch you red-handed. They are going to find you based on who wanted the person gone.)
- mschuster91 3y ago
  > Because in both cases unless you biff it spectacularly the police is not going to catch you red-handed. The barriers for police have also gotten lower over the time. The thing where a lot of criminals get caught is dragnet surveillance - just subpoena Google, Apple and the operators of cellphone towers for a list of everyone who was in the proximity of where a crime happened, and they have no choice but to deliver the data you yourself collected to the police. This is also getting worse because it's just a matter of time until states with abortion bans subpoena Google, Microsoft and Apple for which persons that are regularly in that state have visited known abortion providers in another state in a timeframe consistent with an abortion visit, or who have searched about abortions on the Internet.
- ethbr1 3y ago
  https://www.comparitech.com/blog/vpn-privacy/us-surveillance-camera-statistics/ https://www.comparitech.com/blog/vpn-privacy/us-surveillance... It's gotten a lot harder to drive off into the sunset when there are massive CCTV networks. Drone physically distances the operator from the crime.
matheusmoreira 3y ago
Completely agree. Personal information should be a liability to corporations. It should actively cost them money to know anything at all about us. They should be scrambling to forget all they can the second we're done transacting with them.
3seashells 3y ago
The drone drop on individuals is not the biggest worry. Long range autonomous drones clearly are able to take out large scale infrastructure like pipelines, ships etc, the soft underbelly of the western world. And against the poor and proxy war forces of the world, the law is useless. We will miss the covid delivery crisis very soon. And yes the US has the biggest navy, but against current drifting Kajak sized anti-ship submarine drones it and civil shipping is actually quite vulnerable. And to make such a device smart enough to sleep until it identifies sounds and ship pictures, it needs no military industrial complex magic. A smartphone will do..
zzzcsgo 3y ago
It might be easier to build your own drone rather than jailbreaking a store bought one

fusslo 3y ago

are explosives as easy to get as bullets & guns where you live?

permo-w 3y ago
explosives are a 10 minute youtube video away
wutwutwat 3y ago
Wait until someone puts a gun on a drone and shoots up a concert from states away, or another country...
- micromacrofoot 3y ago
  we're not talking about UAVs here though, someone needs to configure the drone very locally
  - wutwutwat 3y ago
    You realize they are using drones that you or I can buy on amazon, to blow up tanks and people in an ongoing war? > The logic was simple, Pharmacist says: Exploding drones cost roughly $400 to make, while a conventional projectile can cost nearly 10 times as much. Even if it requires multiple drones to take out a tank — and sometimes it does — it is still worth it. > But first they had to modify commercial drones with hardware and software to suit the battlefield, enabling them to penetrate deeper behind enemy lines without being detected or jammed. A breakthrough came through the clever use of several drones in unison. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/how-ukraine-soldiers-use-inexpensive-commercial-drones-on-the-battlefield https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/how-ukraine-soldiers-use-... Cell phone w/ 5G and a time investment from a software engineer could make the range limitless. The point is, it's entirely possible to remotely drone strike using shit from amazon if one were so inclined.
    - micromacrofoot 3y ago
      > could make the range limitless do you have an infinite battery technology? no one's crossing international borders with diy assassin drones unless it's like a mile across the canadian or mexican border — much easier to just shoot someone
      - wutwutwat 3y ago
        I meant wireless range to control it, not fuel/battery range. You're assuming they intend to fly the drone across an ocean or something to hit a target. We don't fly predator drones across the ocean either, they are transported somewhere via other means, and then deployed to the area needed in a way they have the range to actually hit their target. Leaving something on a building rooftop and flying back home to later operate it is not an impossible idea. Use your imagination, there are many ways. Fedex is a thing too.
wutwutwat 3y ago
You can buy Tannerite without an explosive license from the ATF. It's been used in past bombings. Plus, unless they outlaw anything from crude oil, alchohol and the plants used to produce it, gun powder, fireworks, and most chemicals under your kitchen sink, there are thousands of combinations that produce a material that can be used to make explosives. Access or lack of isn't the limiting factor, people's willingness to do it is and always will be the case. Air can make an explosive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannerite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannerite
I_Am_Nous 3y ago
I'd sure be upset about a remote Molotov cocktail payload busting through my window and burning my house down. Things don't have to be explosive to be dangerous.

eli 3y ago

Seems like being able to look up people's home address is a pretty minor part of that threat?

jjkeddo199 3y ago
At the risk of sounding hyperbolic: Imagine Iranian agents using these address books to track down naval officers in San Diego from across the border in Tijuana. Having a global address book lowers the barrier for hunting people down and hurting them. This is already happening to off-duty Russian officers mowing the lawn at home.
- yogurtboy 3y ago
  I kind of agree with your sentiment but your final note about murdered Russian officers needs a citation
  - ickelbawd 3y ago
    Literally the first result when searched for: https://nypost.com/2023/08/29/russian-lieutenant-colonel-mowing-lawn-blown-up-by-drone/ https://nypost.com/2023/08/29/russian-lieutenant-colonel-mow... Edit: not the person making the claim, nor am I particularly vested in this story or its validity. But it took me all of 5 seconds to find.
autoexec 3y ago
Being able to look up someone's address normally isn't a problem. Extremists and nut jobs being able to compile a list of people whose religion, political views, sexual preferences, medical conditions, and purchase habits makes them a target for violence is the problem. At that point being able to find them (using their street address or even real time geolocation data) becomes a pretty big part of that threat.

cycomanic 3y ago

Sometimes the US perspective of things is completely surreal for me as a European. In a country where you can buy assault rifles with minimal background checks, people worry about addresses being available because someone might be able to look up the address to kill them with a drone and a home made bomb.

kajecounterhack 3y ago
> In a country where you can buy assault rifles with minimal background checks, people worry about addresses being available because someone might be able to look up the address to kill them with a drone and a home made bomb. Drones and IUDs may be less traceable than guns and offer even less risk to the user. Currently if you're going to use a gun, you basically have to be suicidal or care zero about the consequences. But that also brings up a good point -- people worry about addresses being available because someone might be able to use a gun and kill them as well. Or hell, just their fists. Doxxing is dangerous, is this not the case in Europe as well?
- fullspectrumdev 3y ago
  Doxing remains dangerous in Europe, the posters just trying to score cheap points.
  - mikrotikker 3y ago
    Remember that time a bunch of Scandinavian bikers got hold of some Carl Gustovs and used them to explode a rivals building among other things?
- edot 3y ago
  > Drones and IUDs may be less traceable than guns and offer even less risk to the user. Gotta watch out for those intra-uterine devices - they can take out a city block. ;)
  - kajecounterhack 3y ago

elorant 3y ago

Most of the footage from Ukraine is from flat empty landscape targeting stationary targets. Trying to do the same on an urban environment with moving targets is way more complicated.

rurp 3y ago

Changing posession of personal user data from a financial asset to a liability is probably the most effective thing the government could do in the near term to protect people's information. Companies right now are incentivized to collect tons of personal data because it's worth real money to them and others, and the liabilities mostly fall to the users. If there were heavy financial consequences to leaking personal data then companies would self regulate away a lot of terrible behavior that is currently common.

ethbr1 3y ago
Imho, the test should be "Is targeted advertising barely profitable?" It should cost enough to retain personal data that, unless that's your primary business and you're very good at it, it doesn't make financial sense.

krisoft 3y ago

> Who needs to do a driveby shooting if you could drop a homemade bomb from a McDonalds bathroom 20 miles away using some jailbroken drone? Driveby shootings are super easy. Drone bombing someone is way harder. Especially from 20 miles away. I don't see how Ukraine would change that. Getting away with driveby shooting requires about the same amount of faff as getting away with a drone murder. (Because in both cases unless you biff it spectacularly the police is not going to catch you red-handed. They are going to find you based on who wanted the person gone.)

mschuster91 3y ago
> Because in both cases unless you biff it spectacularly the police is not going to catch you red-handed. The barriers for police have also gotten lower over the time. The thing where a lot of criminals get caught is dragnet surveillance - just subpoena Google, Apple and the operators of cellphone towers for a list of everyone who was in the proximity of where a crime happened, and they have no choice but to deliver the data you yourself collected to the police. This is also getting worse because it's just a matter of time until states with abortion bans subpoena Google, Microsoft and Apple for which persons that are regularly in that state have visited known abortion providers in another state in a timeframe consistent with an abortion visit, or who have searched about abortions on the Internet.
ethbr1 3y ago
https://www.comparitech.com/blog/vpn-privacy/us-surveillance-camera-statistics/ https://www.comparitech.com/blog/vpn-privacy/us-surveillance... It's gotten a lot harder to drive off into the sunset when there are massive CCTV networks. Drone physically distances the operator from the crime.

matheusmoreira 3y ago

Completely agree. Personal information should be a liability to corporations. It should actively cost them money to know anything at all about us. They should be scrambling to forget all they can the second we're done transacting with them.

3seashells 3y ago

The drone drop on individuals is not the biggest worry. Long range autonomous drones clearly are able to take out large scale infrastructure like pipelines, ships etc, the soft underbelly of the western world. And against the poor and proxy war forces of the world, the law is useless. We will miss the covid delivery crisis very soon. And yes the US has the biggest navy, but against current drifting Kajak sized anti-ship submarine drones it and civil shipping is actually quite vulnerable. And to make such a device smart enough to sleep until it identifies sounds and ship pictures, it needs no military industrial complex magic. A smartphone will do..

zzzcsgo 3y ago

It might be easier to build your own drone rather than jailbreaking a store bought one