3 ms·

I had originally addressed someone saying most of their hard earned money goes to welfare, which is incorrect. I pointed out much more goes to profits instead.

I had originally addressed someone saying most of their hard earned money goes to welfare, which is incorrect. I pointed out much more goes to profits instead. That’s all.

nickpp 3y ago
No. You posited that the majority of the value generated by labour is appropriated by the owners of capital. You were corrected (with numbers) to the actual culprit capturing the majority of value generated by labor&capital: governments.
- dontlaugh 3y ago
  The discussion was about welfare, it’s childish to complain that I didn’t constantly refer to it. Ultimately the difference doesn’t matter much, governments are capital too in countries where the ruling class is capitalists. What they are forced to spend to reproduce the working class is still for their own profits. Governments aren’t some thing separate from class society.
  - nickpp 3y ago
    Governments confiscate an even bigger slice of the value produced in communist countries. The difference is that there is much less value produced there…
    - dontlaugh 3y ago
      In socialist countries, workers form the ruling class. Taxes thus become a form of distributing surplus as the majority see fit. There’s less value produced in countries that started our poorer and such countries tend to have successful proletarian revolutions. It shouldn’t be surprising that they can’t instantly be as developed as the countries that exploited them.
      - nickpp 3y ago
        In the communist Eastern Europe where I grew up the nomenklatura formed the ruling class. And the only distribution of surplus was to themselves. The rest of us was starving. Common theme to all the “proletarian revolutions” I know. All that changed dramatically with the switch to capitalist, market driven economy in the 90s leading to the amazing wealth and prosperity we are currently enjoying. Meanwhile I am still waiting to hear about any communist success story…
        dontlaugh 3y ago
        I grew up in the 90s in Eastern Europe, all I saw was constantly worsening material conditions. Nowadays we’re forced to leave our countries to avoid poverty. Almost everyone older tells us how much worse off we are than they were during socialism. But at least the remaining socialist countries are slowly winning. At this point it’s socialism or extinction.
        nickpp 3y ago
        > how much worse off we are than they were during socialism All you need to understand how false that is is to remember that the machine guns on the border during communism were pointing inwards, so people couldn’t leave. > constantly worsening material conditions Every single actual, measurable life quality metric in the EE has improved singnificantly over the last 30 years. > the remaining socialist countries are slowly winning Please feel free to point out those “winner” countries.
        dontlaugh 3y ago
        My parents were paying 5% of one salary on rent. People younger than me can barely afford rent by pooling together several salaries. The metrics improved for the capitalists that pillaged our countries during the 90s, for sure. It’s pointless talking when you’re so ideologically blinded. Probably because you profit from the exploitation of others, so it’s in your material interest.

I had originally addressed someone saying most of their hard earned money goes to welfare, which is incorrect. I pointed out much more goes to profits instead. That’s all.

nickpp 3y ago

No. You posited that the majority of the value generated by labour is appropriated by the owners of capital. You were corrected (with numbers) to the actual culprit capturing the majority of value generated by labor&capital: governments.

dontlaugh 3y ago
The discussion was about welfare, it’s childish to complain that I didn’t constantly refer to it. Ultimately the difference doesn’t matter much, governments are capital too in countries where the ruling class is capitalists. What they are forced to spend to reproduce the working class is still for their own profits. Governments aren’t some thing separate from class society.
- nickpp 3y ago
  Governments confiscate an even bigger slice of the value produced in communist countries. The difference is that there is much less value produced there…
  - dontlaugh 3y ago
    In socialist countries, workers form the ruling class. Taxes thus become a form of distributing surplus as the majority see fit. There’s less value produced in countries that started our poorer and such countries tend to have successful proletarian revolutions. It shouldn’t be surprising that they can’t instantly be as developed as the countries that exploited them.
    - nickpp 3y ago
      In the communist Eastern Europe where I grew up the nomenklatura formed the ruling class. And the only distribution of surplus was to themselves. The rest of us was starving. Common theme to all the “proletarian revolutions” I know. All that changed dramatically with the switch to capitalist, market driven economy in the 90s leading to the amazing wealth and prosperity we are currently enjoying. Meanwhile I am still waiting to hear about any communist success story…
      - dontlaugh 3y ago
        I grew up in the 90s in Eastern Europe, all I saw was constantly worsening material conditions. Nowadays we’re forced to leave our countries to avoid poverty. Almost everyone older tells us how much worse off we are than they were during socialism. But at least the remaining socialist countries are slowly winning. At this point it’s socialism or extinction.
        nickpp 3y ago
        > how much worse off we are than they were during socialism All you need to understand how false that is is to remember that the machine guns on the border during communism were pointing inwards, so people couldn’t leave. > constantly worsening material conditions Every single actual, measurable life quality metric in the EE has improved singnificantly over the last 30 years. > the remaining socialist countries are slowly winning Please feel free to point out those “winner” countries.
        dontlaugh 3y ago
        My parents were paying 5% of one salary on rent. People younger than me can barely afford rent by pooling together several salaries. The metrics improved for the capitalists that pillaged our countries during the 90s, for sure. It’s pointless talking when you’re so ideologically blinded. Probably because you profit from the exploitation of others, so it’s in your material interest.