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I don't understand how they think they can force EU citizens to use only approved browsers. What's to stop anyone who wishes to from using a non EU one and chan

by ospray 3y ago

I don't understand how they think they can force EU citizens to use only approved browsers. What's to stop anyone who wishes to from using a non EU one and changing the user agent.

kstrauser 3y ago
They can't, and nothing. This is all based on the incorrect assumption that they can legislate how software is written, both inside and outside their borders.
EGreg 3y ago
Simple, they’ll also mandate that the web sites use WEI and check for approved browsers. They will also lean on software distributors to not distribute unapproved browsers or be fined, jailed or lose their ability to distribute software to Europeans. Think of how they tighten the screws on crypto and end-to-end encryption — same playbook! At every step those that don’t follow the EU’s rules will get fined by the same apparatus as GDPR violators
- immibis 3y ago
  There is exactly zero evidence or even conjecture to support this.
  - EGreg 3y ago
    Let’s start here to support what I said the UK already DID: https://www.wired.com/story/the-uks-controversial-online-safety-act-is-now-law/ https://www.wired.com/story/the-uks-controversial-online-saf... And here is the rest of the world and the laws they are passing: https://community.qbix.com/t/the-coming-war-on-end-to-end-encryption/214 https://community.qbix.com/t/the-coming-war-on-end-to-end-en...
cubefox 3y ago
The companies offering browsers will probably be punished with harsh fees by EU courts if they don't implement things like IP based discrimination. You would get around only with a VPN.
- philipkglass 3y ago
  Or it will be circumvented by anyone out of EU reach mirroring the good software versions and offering them for download to all. There are thousands of people with their own web hosts who would probably be willing to do that, myself included. EDIT: I wrote the above thinking of desktop operating systems. It's much worse on e.g. iOS if the only way to get a browser is through the store, and the store isn't allowed to provide the good browser version in some regions.
ajross 3y ago
Well, the law[1] stops them, if they feel like following the law is important. And to the extent they don't, enforcement provisions in the same might compel them. Same as "what's to stop anyone who wishes to from shoplifting", really. But this misunderstands the situation anyway. The overwhelming majority of web clients that interpret CA data are provided by default in devices sold by companies with a clear interest in following the law; because if they don't they can't sell products. [1] Which I won't engage on, except to say that this seems a lot more like "dumb mistake in the legislation" than "evil plot by an unelected metagovernment" to me. The hyperbole on issues like this gets out of control sometimes, and the EFF seems to be getting worse about it and not better over time. They used to be pretty cerebral.
immibis 3y ago
They can't and won't. Just like nothing stops an EU citizen from taking the USB-C charging port out of their new iPhone and changing it to a Lightning port...

by ospray 3y ago

I don't understand how they think they can force EU citizens to use only approved browsers. What's to stop anyone who wishes to from using a non EU one and changing the user agent.

kstrauser 3y ago

They can't, and nothing. This is all based on the incorrect assumption that they can legislate how software is written, both inside and outside their borders.

EGreg 3y ago

Simple, they’ll also mandate that the web sites use WEI and check for approved browsers. They will also lean on software distributors to not distribute unapproved browsers or be fined, jailed or lose their ability to distribute software to Europeans. Think of how they tighten the screws on crypto and end-to-end encryption — same playbook! At every step those that don’t follow the EU’s rules will get fined by the same apparatus as GDPR violators

immibis 3y ago
There is exactly zero evidence or even conjecture to support this.
- EGreg 3y ago
  Let’s start here to support what I said the UK already DID: https://www.wired.com/story/the-uks-controversial-online-safety-act-is-now-law/ https://www.wired.com/story/the-uks-controversial-online-saf... And here is the rest of the world and the laws they are passing: https://community.qbix.com/t/the-coming-war-on-end-to-end-encryption/214 https://community.qbix.com/t/the-coming-war-on-end-to-end-en...

cubefox 3y ago

The companies offering browsers will probably be punished with harsh fees by EU courts if they don't implement things like IP based discrimination. You would get around only with a VPN.

philipkglass 3y ago
Or it will be circumvented by anyone out of EU reach mirroring the good software versions and offering them for download to all. There are thousands of people with their own web hosts who would probably be willing to do that, myself included. EDIT: I wrote the above thinking of desktop operating systems. It's much worse on e.g. iOS if the only way to get a browser is through the store, and the store isn't allowed to provide the good browser version in some regions.

ajross 3y ago

Well, the law[1] stops them, if they feel like following the law is important. And to the extent they don't, enforcement provisions in the same might compel them. Same as "what's to stop anyone who wishes to from shoplifting", really. But this misunderstands the situation anyway. The overwhelming majority of web clients that interpret CA data are provided by default in devices sold by companies with a clear interest in following the law; because if they don't they can't sell products. [1] Which I won't engage on, except to say that this seems a lot more like "dumb mistake in the legislation" than "evil plot by an unelected metagovernment" to me. The hyperbole on issues like this gets out of control sometimes, and the EFF seems to be getting worse about it and not better over time. They used to be pretty cerebral.

immibis 3y ago

They can't and won't. Just like nothing stops an EU citizen from taking the USB-C charging port out of their new iPhone and changing it to a Lightning port...