5 ms·

When will Postgres be supported?

by aantix 3y ago

tristan957 3y ago
If you want something similar to Planetscale, but Postgres, you can check out Neon, which is where I work in the interest of transparency.
- samlambert 3y ago
  Quite a stretch to say similar. Neon does not support sharding, Boost, or scale to anywhere near PlanetScale as reliably.
  - nikita 3y ago
    Neon will stay true to Postgres. Our storage is sharded and bottomless. You can get a ton of TPS scale with large Postgres compute plus read replicas. Shared nothing architectures are useless for 99% of the market and break compatibility with the single node databases.
    - sgammon 3y ago
      As a user of PlanetScale I don’t know what distinction you are making here and why. I’ve never had compatibility issues with single-node databases. It “just works” in the cloud and locally thanks to MySQL support in vitess.
    - samlambert 3y ago
      > Our storage is sharded and bottomless. Anyone can claim this and LVM together 20 64TiB EBS volumes and put them on one big node. That's not sharding or bottomless. Sharding and a shared nothing have incredible benefits to anyone who has a requirement for uptime, scalability, and cost reduction. We’ve avoided supporting parts of MySQL that make scaling worse and are working to add them back in ways that work, like FKs. In return for not supporting all MySQL features we hand back an immense amount in return. This is something our customers have been happy with.
      - nikita 3y ago
        Neon doesn't use EBS volumes. That's why it has an inherent cost advantage over Planetscale.
    - sgammon 3y ago
      Not to mention the 99.8% uptime at Neon, which is shocking. Look, if you are going to bring percentages, make sure they are the right ones. https://www.planetscalestatus.com/ https://www.planetscalestatus.com/ https://neonstatus.com/ https://neonstatus.com/
      - tristan957 3y ago
        FWIW, our uptime is definitely something we are prioritizing.
      - sgammon 3y ago
        Of course... this is a Vitess/Planetscale post or I probably wouldn't have even brought it up. All of these products are constantly undergoing change. They embody the best intentions and dreams of very smart people, such as yourself. I believe Neon will be one of the providers that sticks around to do this. Comparison is the thief of joy.
      - nikita 3y ago
        Our uptime will improve. We have been keeping up with the growth (2500 databases are created per day). And I insisted to be fully transparent on uptime. There is a ton of work internally that will improve the uptime as we get to GA.
        Dhruva23 3y ago
        Very petrifying that Vercel say Neon is GA and the founder of Neon disagrees. https://vercel.com/changelog/vercel-postgres-is-now-available-for-pro-users https://vercel.com/changelog/vercel-postgres-is-now-availabl...
- sgammon 3y ago
  Having tried Neon, it’s not really a replacement for Planetscale. PS’ in-cloud features are hard to replace. In my review, PS won on a feature and cost basis. I think PlanetScale is the most mature option on the market right now by far
  - tristan957 3y ago
    I agree that Planetscale is a very mature offering. Neon is technically in preview still, but we are actively working on the maturity of our offering every day. The success of Planetscale to date is definitely a position many database vendors want to attain. I don't think _won_ is the right term. _In the lead_ would be a better phrase in my opinion. I think Planetscale being based on MySQL will hurt them in the long run. Tying themselves to Orcale is already hurting them, having to fork MySQL to add vector support for instance. Neon, on the other hand, gets to benefit from a larger and much more collaborative community in Postgres, as do other Postgres vendors like Supabase, Azure, AWS, Tembo, Nile, etc. Please continue to use the vendor that you find works for you, however.
    - sgammon 3y ago
      "Won" is a statement which is accurate for the moment in which I did my review. I think all of these database providers are great. Postgres people need a solution just as much as MySQL people do. I think when it comes to Postgres, the name in my mind is Neon, even though I am a Planetscale customer. In my current job, I need MySQL, but to be clear I wouldn't be against Neon (even as a PS fan) if I had a direct need for it. Neon has a reason to exist even if Planetscale is in the "lead." There is a huge community around Vitess, including, you know, YouTube, not to mention MySQL, which also has an enormous community. Keep up the good work. Databases as a service are a good thing to be doing.
      - throwusawayus 3y ago
        youtube migrated away from vitess several years ago Mysql product is circling drain under oracles direction anymore. New 8.x “innovation” releases lack any important features. even Mariadb is out executing oracle despite being broke! Mysql community is in bad shape too. Official slack channel is avalanche of lazy newbie questions. Official linkedin group is endless spew of “learn sql cheat sheet” Sad. It’s done for. community may still be “enormous” but that is bad thing when its communication channels overrun by sub-bootcamp-level devs
- zaphirplane 3y ago
  I wish people would disclose their association with a product in this “my favorite is better than yours” sub thread
  - tristan957 3y ago
    Me - Neon Nikita - Neon Sam Lambert - Planetscale That is all that I am aware of in this subthread. FWIW, Nikita and Sam have their affiliations in their profiles.
billythemaniam 3y ago
CockroachDB and Yugabyte are Postgres compatible. GCP Spanner also has a Postgres compatibility layer. CockroachDB and Spanner support foreign keys across shards which is an interesting feature.
Icathian 3y ago
You probably want to check out Greenplum for the postgres equivalent to this.
- andrewmutz 3y ago
  Isn't Greenplum intended for OLAP style workloads? I believe Vitess is intended to be used for OLTP workloads.
  - Icathian 3y ago
    It works quite well for OLTP too. It's just that a lot of engineering effort went into features to make it workable for olap, which admittedly means that those hours didn't go towards further improving OLTP features. Overall though it's quite commonly used for both.
shawnz 3y ago
I believe Citus is the closest alternative for Postgres.

When will Postgres be supported?

by aantix 3y ago

When will Postgres be supported?

If you want something similar to Planetscale, but Postgres, you can check out Neon, which is where I work in the interest of transparency.

samlambert 3y ago
Quite a stretch to say similar. Neon does not support sharding, Boost, or scale to anywhere near PlanetScale as reliably.
- nikita 3y ago
  Neon will stay true to Postgres. Our storage is sharded and bottomless. You can get a ton of TPS scale with large Postgres compute plus read replicas. Shared nothing architectures are useless for 99% of the market and break compatibility with the single node databases.
  - sgammon 3y ago
    As a user of PlanetScale I don’t know what distinction you are making here and why. I’ve never had compatibility issues with single-node databases. It “just works” in the cloud and locally thanks to MySQL support in vitess.
  - samlambert 3y ago
    > Our storage is sharded and bottomless. Anyone can claim this and LVM together 20 64TiB EBS volumes and put them on one big node. That's not sharding or bottomless. Sharding and a shared nothing have incredible benefits to anyone who has a requirement for uptime, scalability, and cost reduction. We’ve avoided supporting parts of MySQL that make scaling worse and are working to add them back in ways that work, like FKs. In return for not supporting all MySQL features we hand back an immense amount in return. This is something our customers have been happy with.
    - nikita 3y ago
      Neon doesn't use EBS volumes. That's why it has an inherent cost advantage over Planetscale.
  - sgammon 3y ago
    Not to mention the 99.8% uptime at Neon, which is shocking. Look, if you are going to bring percentages, make sure they are the right ones. https://www.planetscalestatus.com/ https://www.planetscalestatus.com/ https://neonstatus.com/ https://neonstatus.com/
    - tristan957 3y ago
      FWIW, our uptime is definitely something we are prioritizing.
    - sgammon 3y ago
      Of course... this is a Vitess/Planetscale post or I probably wouldn't have even brought it up. All of these products are constantly undergoing change. They embody the best intentions and dreams of very smart people, such as yourself. I believe Neon will be one of the providers that sticks around to do this. Comparison is the thief of joy.
    - nikita 3y ago
      Our uptime will improve. We have been keeping up with the growth (2500 databases are created per day). And I insisted to be fully transparent on uptime. There is a ton of work internally that will improve the uptime as we get to GA.
      - Dhruva23 3y ago
        Very petrifying that Vercel say Neon is GA and the founder of Neon disagrees. https://vercel.com/changelog/vercel-postgres-is-now-available-for-pro-users https://vercel.com/changelog/vercel-postgres-is-now-availabl...
sgammon 3y ago
Having tried Neon, it’s not really a replacement for Planetscale. PS’ in-cloud features are hard to replace. In my review, PS won on a feature and cost basis. I think PlanetScale is the most mature option on the market right now by far
- tristan957 3y ago
  I agree that Planetscale is a very mature offering. Neon is technically in preview still, but we are actively working on the maturity of our offering every day. The success of Planetscale to date is definitely a position many database vendors want to attain. I don't think _won_ is the right term. _In the lead_ would be a better phrase in my opinion. I think Planetscale being based on MySQL will hurt them in the long run. Tying themselves to Orcale is already hurting them, having to fork MySQL to add vector support for instance. Neon, on the other hand, gets to benefit from a larger and much more collaborative community in Postgres, as do other Postgres vendors like Supabase, Azure, AWS, Tembo, Nile, etc. Please continue to use the vendor that you find works for you, however.
  - sgammon 3y ago
    "Won" is a statement which is accurate for the moment in which I did my review. I think all of these database providers are great. Postgres people need a solution just as much as MySQL people do. I think when it comes to Postgres, the name in my mind is Neon, even though I am a Planetscale customer. In my current job, I need MySQL, but to be clear I wouldn't be against Neon (even as a PS fan) if I had a direct need for it. Neon has a reason to exist even if Planetscale is in the "lead." There is a huge community around Vitess, including, you know, YouTube, not to mention MySQL, which also has an enormous community. Keep up the good work. Databases as a service are a good thing to be doing.
    - throwusawayus 3y ago
      youtube migrated away from vitess several years ago Mysql product is circling drain under oracles direction anymore. New 8.x “innovation” releases lack any important features. even Mariadb is out executing oracle despite being broke! Mysql community is in bad shape too. Official slack channel is avalanche of lazy newbie questions. Official linkedin group is endless spew of “learn sql cheat sheet” Sad. It’s done for. community may still be “enormous” but that is bad thing when its communication channels overrun by sub-bootcamp-level devs
zaphirplane 3y ago
I wish people would disclose their association with a product in this “my favorite is better than yours” sub thread
- tristan957 3y ago
  Me - Neon Nikita - Neon Sam Lambert - Planetscale That is all that I am aware of in this subthread. FWIW, Nikita and Sam have their affiliations in their profiles.

billythemaniam 3y ago

CockroachDB and Yugabyte are Postgres compatible. GCP Spanner also has a Postgres compatibility layer. CockroachDB and Spanner support foreign keys across shards which is an interesting feature.

Icathian 3y ago

You probably want to check out Greenplum for the postgres equivalent to this.

andrewmutz 3y ago
Isn't Greenplum intended for OLAP style workloads? I believe Vitess is intended to be used for OLTP workloads.
- Icathian 3y ago
  It works quite well for OLTP too. It's just that a lot of engineering effort went into features to make it workable for olap, which admittedly means that those hours didn't go towards further improving OLTP features. Overall though it's quite commonly used for both.

shawnz 3y ago

I believe Citus is the closest alternative for Postgres.