5 ms·

I've been a huge fan of Fedora, and it seems this release does 90% of what I want, but since I'm on a Framework 13 with a weird screen resolution, I once again

by tapoxi 3y ago

I've been a huge fan of Fedora, and it seems this release does 90% of what I want, but since I'm on a Framework 13 with a weird screen resolution, I once again fall into DPI scaling hell. GNOME locks fractional scaling behind an experimental option, apps like Signal are blurry and apps like Steam just seemingly ignore any attempt to scale properly. For what it's worth KDE seems to handle at least the blurry X scaling issue and supports fractional scaling by default. Maybe one day, everything will just work...

Handprint4469 3y ago
> Maybe one day, everything will just work... I've had the same hope since I started using Linux, back in 2004.
- sillywalk 3y ago
  >> Maybe one day, everything will just work... > I've had the same hope since I started using Linux, back in 2004. I've had the same hope since I started using Linux, back in 1994. Driver support is better, and no X11 Modelines, which is nice.
  - lagniappe 3y ago
    Since '95 here... I'm just happy I don't have to visit a library to get 0.1% as far as I can today with a simple search query. We've got it good now, all things considered. I'm sure others feel differently, but I cannot complain.
    - sillywalk 3y ago
      > We've got it good now, all things considered. I'm sure others feel differently, but I cannot complain. /deadpan/ I can complain, and I do it all the time, especially on internet forums. It's not my fault other people haven't fixed my complaints, even though I've offered no assistance. That's their fault. People say "you've got it good now", or "you're not helping", or "show us the source code", or "First world problems", or "I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire". These people think I'm some sort of an entitled, self-righteous, hypocritical, bleep-hole.
      - sk5t 3y ago
        Jack Handey “Lowering my Standards” vibes (a very amusing short essay).
        sillywalk 3y ago
        Thanks, I'll take that as a compliment :) As a kid, I remember his Deep Thoughts SNL bits, as an adult, I bought a couple of Jack Handy's Deep Thoughts books. In hind sight I'd say that was more The Onion "People Don't Like It When You Call Them Stupid" https://www.theonion.com/people-dont-like-it-when-you-call-them-stupid-1819583684 https://www.theonion.com/people-dont-like-it-when-you-call-t...
- paulddraper 3y ago
  Well you're in luck, because 2024 is the year of the Linux desktop.
  - bagol 3y ago
    Every year is the year of the Linux desktop.
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    Sure, emulating Windows games via Proton....
    - throwaway22208 3y ago
      I guess Windows was never a real desktop OS either because no developer bothered porting the entire NES library to it.
      - pjmlp 3y ago
        They wrote new games for it, there was no need to emulate NES.
  - igetspam 3y ago
    Finally!
jklinger410 3y ago
> but since I'm on a Framework 13 with a weird screen resolution Hold up, is this a reason to not buy a Framework?
- jwells89 3y ago
  The problem isn’t just with Framework laptops, an increasing number of x86 laptops are built with odd resolution panels that require fractional scaling. Very few offer panels that are conducive to 2x integer scaling, and while typical lower DPI panels that don’t require scaling are a config option on some models, that often also comes with other major tradeoffs like low brightness or bad color reproduction.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- tapoxi 3y ago
  It's 2256x1504 and 3:2. It's a nice screen, but it's one that absolutely works best at 1.5x scale since 1 is unreadable and 2 wastes plenty of screen real estate.
  - tmtvl 3y ago
    As an idiot who's never used a screen with more than 1080p resolution, is there a reason why just increasing font size doesn't work?
    - onetoo 3y ago
      Not all UI elements scale with font size. Illustrations, nested element containers, navigation controls, etc. It looks very comical when you first see it.
    - joaonmatos 3y ago
      Desktop apps scale their layout based on the number of pixels, not on text size. So (with the notable exception of browser apps and by consequence Electron apps) you will just end up having bigger text in a badly laid out window if you just increase text size.
jwells89 3y ago
My ThinkPad similarly needs to run at 150% scale to be usable and I’ve also found that KDE still has issues even if it handles scaling better. The biggest one is that only C++ window decorations draw correctly under Wayland with fractional scaling enabled — the much more common Aurorae themes are blurry looking which is unfortunate, because only a handful of themes are C++ and mostly minor variants of Breeze.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
  Mine too- I was a bonehead and bought a "3k" display for my w541. I've found that 100% scaling w/ "large text" enabled in accessibility settings strikes a good balance.
tantony 3y ago
I bought a Framework 13 when it first came out, with exactly this hope. I gave up after about one month of madness and ordered an M1 Max Macbook Pro. I also installed Windows on the Framework with WSL. Now it gets used very rarely (like for when I want to do Windows development, or for my parents to use when they visit) and mostly sits around gathering dust. Desktop linux has burned me one too many times for me to trust it again.
- brightball 3y ago
  I've run almost exclusively Linux for the past 7ish years. First with Dell and then System76. It's been an overall very smooth experience. I decided I wanted to get a machine with a powerful video card recently, so now I'm running an Alienware with Windows for the first time since 2005 on my primary monitor and my Linux machine on a side monitor. The only real win for Windows is that it remembers my audio/video settings with a lot of peripherals plugged in. Linux seemed to forget every few hours and Zoom meetings were a nightmare. If WSL was more consistent it would get a stronger vote, but there are weird experiences in there.
  - tantony 3y ago
    Before buying the Framework, I used a MacBook Pro for ~11 years. I am perfectly comfortable with the command-line and ssh into a Linux VM every day at work (windows laptop). I use a tmux+neovim setup that mostly works without any problems (except for random LSP issues at times). I can just get all of the advantages of a *nix shell but with a better UI, using macOS. I have zero regrets from switching back to a Mac after my month-long experiment. My only regret is that I didn't order the M1 Max as soon as it was out and couldn't get the amount of RAM I wanted (it had a long wait by the time I decided to buy).
cantours 3y ago
Why isn't fractional scaling supported from day 1? I mean if you're going to do dpi scaling in the first place, why in the world would you restrict it to whole numbers only? Is it some insane hardcoded hack or something? Scaling with changing dpi is the easiest thing in the world. Anyone who has written a program with some kind of 'zoom' feature (be it a game, image editor, image viewer, etc) knows how easy it is.
yett 3y ago
Fractional scaling was enabled briefly during beta but too many apps were blurry so they reverted and postponed it to Fedora 40
noja 3y ago
Are Signal and Steam apps from Fedora? Is this a problem specific to Fedora 39?
- lostmsu 3y ago
  They are not, but that's not what users care about. See e.g. complains about old apps for Windows being blurry when DPI scaling was introduced.
  - cloudwalk9 3y ago
    What I don't get is why apps are still blurry on 4K screens last I tried it on Ubuntu, with 200% fractional scaling. If they're non-blurry on 1080p, shouldn't it be a perfectly linear 1:1 upscale?
    - xoac 3y ago
      How is 200% fractional scaling?
kcb 3y ago
Fractional Scaling works pretty well out of the box on Ubuntu. It seems they apply patches to support it. As someone who just swapped from Fedora 38 to Ubuntu 23.10, Ubuntu definitely wins in terms of being a polished desktop experience.
dpc_01234 3y ago
I'm using the same setup and use 100% scaling and "Large Text" accessibility settings. Good enough for me, as a workaround so I thought it's worth mentioning.
davet91 3y ago
Steam fractional scaling should work since their big UI update a few months ago. Try launching Steam with this environment variable: STEAM_FORCE_DESKTOPUI_SCALING=1.5
- tapoxi 3y ago
  Awesome this fixes it! For those using the Flatpak: sudo flatpak override com.valvesoftware.Steam --env=STEAM_FORCE_DESKTOPUI_SCALING=1.5
mikrl 3y ago
I tried using Wayland, but I forgot to write down the 7 esoteric GPU related options I had to pass to vscode to make it usable without visual glitches and eventually just gave up and went back to X11
ladyanita22 3y ago
Why not using Fedora KDE?
- darthrupert 3y ago
  KDE seems to be much less stable for just about everything, but especially under Wayland. But I've learned to understand that some peoples' experience is almost the exact opposite.
  - pietro72ohboy 3y ago
    I speak for my own experience but KDE has been incredibly stable on my machines. For work, I use Plasma on Debian Bookworm and after putting in some work to set Plasma up the right way (set up my favorite fonts, scaling factor, etc.), everything works without issues/crashes. On my personal machine, I'm using Fedora Kinoite (immutable Fedora with KDE) and the experience has been similarly splendid. I do feel that Kinoite is a bit more polished than Debian but I guess that has more to do with Debian's opinionated principles rather than anything else.
pjmlp 3y ago
I used to think like that between 1995 and 2009. Nowadays, the Linux kernel is all over the place at my phones, TV, DVD player, and tablets, yet GNU/Linux only on a surving netbook, from the netbook glory days, Asus 1215B.
akvadrako 3y ago
In case it helps anyone, you can fix blurry X11 apps in GNOME by disabling fractional scaling like this: settings set org.gnome.mutter experimental-features "[]" Indeed it isn't the best experience and hopefully XWayland gets some better defaults, but fractional scaling cannot work well unless apps support it natively since text needs to be rendered at the correct DPI or exact 2x/3x multiples.

by tapoxi 3y ago

Handprint4469 3y ago

> Maybe one day, everything will just work... I've had the same hope since I started using Linux, back in 2004.

sillywalk 3y ago
>> Maybe one day, everything will just work... > I've had the same hope since I started using Linux, back in 2004. I've had the same hope since I started using Linux, back in 1994. Driver support is better, and no X11 Modelines, which is nice.
- lagniappe 3y ago
  Since '95 here... I'm just happy I don't have to visit a library to get 0.1% as far as I can today with a simple search query. We've got it good now, all things considered. I'm sure others feel differently, but I cannot complain.
  - sillywalk 3y ago
    > We've got it good now, all things considered. I'm sure others feel differently, but I cannot complain. /deadpan/ I can complain, and I do it all the time, especially on internet forums. It's not my fault other people haven't fixed my complaints, even though I've offered no assistance. That's their fault. People say "you've got it good now", or "you're not helping", or "show us the source code", or "First world problems", or "I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire". These people think I'm some sort of an entitled, self-righteous, hypocritical, bleep-hole.
    - sk5t 3y ago
      Jack Handey “Lowering my Standards” vibes (a very amusing short essay).
      - sillywalk 3y ago
        Thanks, I'll take that as a compliment :) As a kid, I remember his Deep Thoughts SNL bits, as an adult, I bought a couple of Jack Handy's Deep Thoughts books. In hind sight I'd say that was more The Onion "People Don't Like It When You Call Them Stupid" https://www.theonion.com/people-dont-like-it-when-you-call-them-stupid-1819583684 https://www.theonion.com/people-dont-like-it-when-you-call-t...
paulddraper 3y ago
Well you're in luck, because 2024 is the year of the Linux desktop.
- bagol 3y ago
  Every year is the year of the Linux desktop.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  Sure, emulating Windows games via Proton....
  - throwaway22208 3y ago
    I guess Windows was never a real desktop OS either because no developer bothered porting the entire NES library to it.
    - pjmlp 3y ago
      They wrote new games for it, there was no need to emulate NES.
- igetspam 3y ago
  Finally!

jklinger410 3y ago

> but since I'm on a Framework 13 with a weird screen resolution Hold up, is this a reason to not buy a Framework?

jwells89 3y ago
The problem isn’t just with Framework laptops, an increasing number of x86 laptops are built with odd resolution panels that require fractional scaling. Very few offer panels that are conducive to 2x integer scaling, and while typical lower DPI panels that don’t require scaling are a config option on some models, that often also comes with other major tradeoffs like low brightness or bad color reproduction.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
tapoxi 3y ago
It's 2256x1504 and 3:2. It's a nice screen, but it's one that absolutely works best at 1.5x scale since 1 is unreadable and 2 wastes plenty of screen real estate.
- tmtvl 3y ago
  As an idiot who's never used a screen with more than 1080p resolution, is there a reason why just increasing font size doesn't work?
  - onetoo 3y ago
    Not all UI elements scale with font size. Illustrations, nested element containers, navigation controls, etc. It looks very comical when you first see it.
  - joaonmatos 3y ago
    Desktop apps scale their layout based on the number of pixels, not on text size. So (with the notable exception of browser apps and by consequence Electron apps) you will just end up having bigger text in a badly laid out window if you just increase text size.

jwells89 3y ago

My ThinkPad similarly needs to run at 150% scale to be usable and I’ve also found that KDE still has issues even if it handles scaling better. The biggest one is that only C++ window decorations draw correctly under Wayland with fractional scaling enabled — the much more common Aurorae themes are blurry looking which is unfortunate, because only a handful of themes are C++ and mostly minor variants of Breeze.

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
Mine too- I was a bonehead and bought a "3k" display for my w541. I've found that 100% scaling w/ "large text" enabled in accessibility settings strikes a good balance.

tantony 3y ago

I bought a Framework 13 when it first came out, with exactly this hope. I gave up after about one month of madness and ordered an M1 Max Macbook Pro. I also installed Windows on the Framework with WSL. Now it gets used very rarely (like for when I want to do Windows development, or for my parents to use when they visit) and mostly sits around gathering dust. Desktop linux has burned me one too many times for me to trust it again.

brightball 3y ago
I've run almost exclusively Linux for the past 7ish years. First with Dell and then System76. It's been an overall very smooth experience. I decided I wanted to get a machine with a powerful video card recently, so now I'm running an Alienware with Windows for the first time since 2005 on my primary monitor and my Linux machine on a side monitor. The only real win for Windows is that it remembers my audio/video settings with a lot of peripherals plugged in. Linux seemed to forget every few hours and Zoom meetings were a nightmare. If WSL was more consistent it would get a stronger vote, but there are weird experiences in there.
- tantony 3y ago
  Before buying the Framework, I used a MacBook Pro for ~11 years. I am perfectly comfortable with the command-line and ssh into a Linux VM every day at work (windows laptop). I use a tmux+neovim setup that mostly works without any problems (except for random LSP issues at times). I can just get all of the advantages of a *nix shell but with a better UI, using macOS. I have zero regrets from switching back to a Mac after my month-long experiment. My only regret is that I didn't order the M1 Max as soon as it was out and couldn't get the amount of RAM I wanted (it had a long wait by the time I decided to buy).

cantours 3y ago

Why isn't fractional scaling supported from day 1? I mean if you're going to do dpi scaling in the first place, why in the world would you restrict it to whole numbers only? Is it some insane hardcoded hack or something? Scaling with changing dpi is the easiest thing in the world. Anyone who has written a program with some kind of 'zoom' feature (be it a game, image editor, image viewer, etc) knows how easy it is.

yett 3y ago

Fractional scaling was enabled briefly during beta but too many apps were blurry so they reverted and postponed it to Fedora 40

noja 3y ago

Are Signal and Steam apps from Fedora? Is this a problem specific to Fedora 39?

lostmsu 3y ago
They are not, but that's not what users care about. See e.g. complains about old apps for Windows being blurry when DPI scaling was introduced.
- cloudwalk9 3y ago
  What I don't get is why apps are still blurry on 4K screens last I tried it on Ubuntu, with 200% fractional scaling. If they're non-blurry on 1080p, shouldn't it be a perfectly linear 1:1 upscale?
  - xoac 3y ago
    How is 200% fractional scaling?

kcb 3y ago

Fractional Scaling works pretty well out of the box on Ubuntu. It seems they apply patches to support it. As someone who just swapped from Fedora 38 to Ubuntu 23.10, Ubuntu definitely wins in terms of being a polished desktop experience.

dpc_01234 3y ago

I'm using the same setup and use 100% scaling and "Large Text" accessibility settings. Good enough for me, as a workaround so I thought it's worth mentioning.

davet91 3y ago

Steam fractional scaling should work since their big UI update a few months ago. Try launching Steam with this environment variable: STEAM_FORCE_DESKTOPUI_SCALING=1.5

tapoxi 3y ago
Awesome this fixes it! For those using the Flatpak: sudo flatpak override com.valvesoftware.Steam --env=STEAM_FORCE_DESKTOPUI_SCALING=1.5

mikrl 3y ago

I tried using Wayland, but I forgot to write down the 7 esoteric GPU related options I had to pass to vscode to make it usable without visual glitches and eventually just gave up and went back to X11

ladyanita22 3y ago

Why not using Fedora KDE?

darthrupert 3y ago
KDE seems to be much less stable for just about everything, but especially under Wayland. But I've learned to understand that some peoples' experience is almost the exact opposite.
- pietro72ohboy 3y ago
  I speak for my own experience but KDE has been incredibly stable on my machines. For work, I use Plasma on Debian Bookworm and after putting in some work to set Plasma up the right way (set up my favorite fonts, scaling factor, etc.), everything works without issues/crashes. On my personal machine, I'm using Fedora Kinoite (immutable Fedora with KDE) and the experience has been similarly splendid. I do feel that Kinoite is a bit more polished than Debian but I guess that has more to do with Debian's opinionated principles rather than anything else.

pjmlp 3y ago

I used to think like that between 1995 and 2009. Nowadays, the Linux kernel is all over the place at my phones, TV, DVD player, and tablets, yet GNU/Linux only on a surving netbook, from the netbook glory days, Asus 1215B.

akvadrako 3y ago

In case it helps anyone, you can fix blurry X11 apps in GNOME by disabling fractional scaling like this: settings set org.gnome.mutter experimental-features "[]" Indeed it isn't the best experience and hopefully XWayland gets some better defaults, but fractional scaling cannot work well unless apps support it natively since text needs to be rendered at the correct DPI or exact 2x/3x multiples.