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This gives me very mixed feelings. On one hand I applaud any attempt to build more affordable houses and am sad when those attempts fall apart. The Bay Area esp

This gives me very mixed feelings. On one hand I applaud any attempt to build more affordable houses and am sad when those attempts fall apart. The Bay Area especially, but the US in general, needs to take a serious look at how we plan and build cities... and how much they currently suck. These mixed-use communities are a great for creating more walkable, transit friendly, cities. That being said. The entire concept that tech giants being the ones to theoretically create new real estate empires... gives me a lot of Snowcrash vibes. And yes, I know the real estate megacorps of today are probably worse than Google. Really doesn't help.

hyggetrold 3y ago
> gives me a lot of Snowcrash vibes I often feel this way also. Snowcrash seems like the future we are cruising towards.
- rnk 3y ago
  And our world is without reliable 30 minute pizza delivery by mafia owned pizza chains. At least no one gets pooned.
  - ShakataGaNai 3y ago
    Seriously. All of the down sides, none of the delicious pizza loving upsides.
jmugan 3y ago
To me it is more Oryx and Crake by Margaret Atwood.
- morkalork 3y ago
  Been getting that feeling a lot lately with all the news about pig heart transplants and lab grown meat.
- sershe 3y ago
  Am I the only one who thought the core of the society described in the book was more of an utopia than a dystopia? Then, she added perverted(early on)/misanthropic deviant genius to destroy it, a character that lacked even basic verisimilitude by himself, or in context? While the plot was enjoyable as easy reading, the background to me was like someone took one of those space-age-futuristic (or maybe modern solarpunk) landscapes and wrote "I disapprove" over it in red ink as a form of criticism.
  - dghlsakjg 3y ago
    The core of the society was a privileged elite living in corporate, walled compounds that insulated them from the damaged world, and the damage that their own work caused. Access to the "utopia" was tied to employment and compliance to a corporate agenda.
    - sershe 3y ago
      > privileged elite living in corporate, walled compounds that insulated them Given that elite was shown as hyper-meritocratic (even in the dynamic between two main characters), I think that's the utopia-like part. > compliance to a corporate agenda The least-bad large entity agenda throughout history. Again they have a pretty prominent example where elites are working on more efficient food production, among other things. It's like the Green revolution (which many people also didn't like because it was unnatural) :) > damaged world, and the damage that their own work caused Was it more damaged than real world? I guess I don't remember very well, or maybe I was reading it thru the same lens as I read real-world doomerism, where "Millenials are poor and doomed" articles are contradicted by basic statistics.
      - dghlsakjg 3y ago
        It’s been a while since I read it, but if I recall correctly the first book is told from the perspective of living inside the compounds, and the later books tell the story from people outside the compounds. The corporations and large entities are not really defensible given that one of the plot points in Oryx and Crake is creating a sentient species to showcase genetic options for sale to parents, and another is the creation of a designer drug for those outside the wall with a secret side effect of sterility to address population concerns. The entire story is told retrospectively from a post civilization world ruined by over extraction and commercialism. I don’t think it really falls into “millennial doomerism” since it was published in 2003 which is when I think we were still in the “gen x nihilism” phase of generational griping.
- local_crmdgeon 3y ago
  That was literally the worst book I’ve ever read
  - bzhang255 3y ago
    I know this isn't a literature review forum but I think the standard for commentary could be a little higher than what you've just written.
JKCalhoun 3y ago
Gives me Seoul vibes.
- seoulmetro 3y ago
  Seoul the city? What are Seoul vibes? This story ain't much like the city Seoul. Korea has lots of conglomerate owned construction but they're not just tech companies building apartments. They have some proper engineering branching. Also Korean apartments are the best in the world, I wouldn't expect Google to create anything near as well planned.
scoofy 3y ago
The underlying problem is that people who don't yet live somewhere, can't vote. This is why I believe that all of these issues will have to be dealt with on a regional/state level. Everything is always someone else's problem: density is for other cities (my neighborhood is perfect, no thanks), the bus is for other people (I don't like the anti-social behavior, no thanks), bike infrastructure is for other neighborhoods (we need the street-parking, no thanks), induction stoves are for other kitchens (I like gas, no thanks), we have created a world in which other people are supposed to deal with the burdens of our excesses. Even the idea that Google was going to "deal with the issue of housing" is just so far down the road of buck-passing that I have no idea whether this is a viable solution, or whether my entire generation will become so fed up that there will just be a cascade of urban density legislation coming from my millinial-gen-z/a cohort that it will become a scorched earth strategy where we just flatly stop trying to negotiate with these boomers. I can see early signs of that in CA, but who knows where it will go. The middling housing legislation that's been passed so far seems like a compromise of a compromise, and won't produce anywhere near the housing we need in the next 10 years... which means I'll be nearing retirement before even considering purchasing a home.
- RhysU 3y ago
  > The underlying problem is that people who don't yet live somewhere, can't vote. Are you advocating for universal universal suffrage? As in, everyone can vote everywhere?
  - scoofy 3y ago
    I’m not advocating anything really just explaining the broken economics of political boundaries policing their own development.
dehrmann 3y ago
> The entire concept that tech giants being the ones to theoretically create new real estate empires... I don't think tech companies really wanted to be in this position. It's more that cities failed to build housing, so they started whining about all the workers moving there to work at tech companies. Tech companies caved, saying they'd build more housing, but to be clear, this is a failure of local government.
- RhysU 3y ago
  Sincerely, what happens to an area that builds at rates not deemed to be a "failure"? I never hear how that turns out and why failing to get there is suboptimal.

hyggetrold 3y ago

> gives me a lot of Snowcrash vibes I often feel this way also. Snowcrash seems like the future we are cruising towards.

rnk 3y ago
And our world is without reliable 30 minute pizza delivery by mafia owned pizza chains. At least no one gets pooned.
- ShakataGaNai 3y ago
  Seriously. All of the down sides, none of the delicious pizza loving upsides.

jmugan 3y ago

To me it is more Oryx and Crake by Margaret Atwood.

morkalork 3y ago
Been getting that feeling a lot lately with all the news about pig heart transplants and lab grown meat.
sershe 3y ago
Am I the only one who thought the core of the society described in the book was more of an utopia than a dystopia? Then, she added perverted(early on)/misanthropic deviant genius to destroy it, a character that lacked even basic verisimilitude by himself, or in context? While the plot was enjoyable as easy reading, the background to me was like someone took one of those space-age-futuristic (or maybe modern solarpunk) landscapes and wrote "I disapprove" over it in red ink as a form of criticism.
- dghlsakjg 3y ago
  The core of the society was a privileged elite living in corporate, walled compounds that insulated them from the damaged world, and the damage that their own work caused. Access to the "utopia" was tied to employment and compliance to a corporate agenda.
  - sershe 3y ago
    > privileged elite living in corporate, walled compounds that insulated them Given that elite was shown as hyper-meritocratic (even in the dynamic between two main characters), I think that's the utopia-like part. > compliance to a corporate agenda The least-bad large entity agenda throughout history. Again they have a pretty prominent example where elites are working on more efficient food production, among other things. It's like the Green revolution (which many people also didn't like because it was unnatural) :) > damaged world, and the damage that their own work caused Was it more damaged than real world? I guess I don't remember very well, or maybe I was reading it thru the same lens as I read real-world doomerism, where "Millenials are poor and doomed" articles are contradicted by basic statistics.
    - dghlsakjg 3y ago
      It’s been a while since I read it, but if I recall correctly the first book is told from the perspective of living inside the compounds, and the later books tell the story from people outside the compounds. The corporations and large entities are not really defensible given that one of the plot points in Oryx and Crake is creating a sentient species to showcase genetic options for sale to parents, and another is the creation of a designer drug for those outside the wall with a secret side effect of sterility to address population concerns. The entire story is told retrospectively from a post civilization world ruined by over extraction and commercialism. I don’t think it really falls into “millennial doomerism” since it was published in 2003 which is when I think we were still in the “gen x nihilism” phase of generational griping.
local_crmdgeon 3y ago
That was literally the worst book I’ve ever read
- bzhang255 3y ago
  I know this isn't a literature review forum but I think the standard for commentary could be a little higher than what you've just written.

JKCalhoun 3y ago

Gives me Seoul vibes.

seoulmetro 3y ago
Seoul the city? What are Seoul vibes? This story ain't much like the city Seoul. Korea has lots of conglomerate owned construction but they're not just tech companies building apartments. They have some proper engineering branching. Also Korean apartments are the best in the world, I wouldn't expect Google to create anything near as well planned.

scoofy 3y ago

The underlying problem is that people who don't yet live somewhere, can't vote. This is why I believe that all of these issues will have to be dealt with on a regional/state level. Everything is always someone else's problem: density is for other cities (my neighborhood is perfect, no thanks), the bus is for other people (I don't like the anti-social behavior, no thanks), bike infrastructure is for other neighborhoods (we need the street-parking, no thanks), induction stoves are for other kitchens (I like gas, no thanks), we have created a world in which other people are supposed to deal with the burdens of our excesses. Even the idea that Google was going to "deal with the issue of housing" is just so far down the road of buck-passing that I have no idea whether this is a viable solution, or whether my entire generation will become so fed up that there will just be a cascade of urban density legislation coming from my millinial-gen-z/a cohort that it will become a scorched earth strategy where we just flatly stop trying to negotiate with these boomers. I can see early signs of that in CA, but who knows where it will go. The middling housing legislation that's been passed so far seems like a compromise of a compromise, and won't produce anywhere near the housing we need in the next 10 years... which means I'll be nearing retirement before even considering purchasing a home.

RhysU 3y ago
> The underlying problem is that people who don't yet live somewhere, can't vote. Are you advocating for universal universal suffrage? As in, everyone can vote everywhere?
- scoofy 3y ago
  I’m not advocating anything really just explaining the broken economics of political boundaries policing their own development.

dehrmann 3y ago

> The entire concept that tech giants being the ones to theoretically create new real estate empires... I don't think tech companies really wanted to be in this position. It's more that cities failed to build housing, so they started whining about all the workers moving there to work at tech companies. Tech companies caved, saying they'd build more housing, but to be clear, this is a failure of local government.

RhysU 3y ago
Sincerely, what happens to an area that builds at rates not deemed to be a "failure"? I never hear how that turns out and why failing to get there is suboptimal.