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Oooh, I would _absolutely_ buy one of these to tow with. (looks like that diesel has _enough_ torque for my needs.) It's become almost impossible to find a che

Oooh, I would _absolutely_ buy one of these to tow with. (looks like that diesel has _enough_ torque for my needs.) It's become almost impossible to find a cheap pickup truck in the US. Even older USED trucks are commanding $30K these days. If they could fit this out to pass safety regs in North America and keep the price under $20K, it would be a license to print money.

gottorf 3y ago
A small pickup, at least with any kind of ICE, is literally illegal to sell here due to CAFE regulations, which are strangely based on the footprint of the car. An actually small pickup would have to be as fuel-efficient as sedans and small SUVs, which isn't going to work out. EVs will work, but not at that sub-$20k price point.
- nathanaldensr 3y ago
  People don't even realize that the government agencies responsible for saving us from "climate change" are the same ones causing absolutely stupid issues like this.
  - gsk22 3y ago
    Why the scare quotes? Are we still pretending climate change isn't real? The rest of your point is totally valid (CAFE is a textbook example of well-intentioned regulations backfiring spectacularly). But the climate denier nonsense kinda spoils the message.
    - paulddraper 3y ago
      > Are we still pretending climate change isn't real? We are pretending that what the government is interested in isn't climate change.
      - roelschroeven 3y ago
        I guess it would be clearer if the scare quotes where around the whole "saving us from climate change".
- jstarfish 3y ago
  This can't be right. Maybe it is, but it makes no sense. The 90s Frontier is a tiny little thing, almost what a Kei truck is today. Same with the Ranger. An El Camino is bigger. I bought a base Frontier in 2017, wanting that tiny truck but ended up with something the size of a 90s F150. Literally the smallest option on the market, whose weak-ass v4 struggles to haul its own weight (and has the turning radius of an aircraft carrier). Tacomas? I like Toyota but the used market for those is worse than MSRP. And Ford stopped making the Ranger; the Maverick ain't it. It's basically what I have already. How is this the result of new efficiency standards? We still have small cars on the road. Cutting the roof off and appending a flatbed doesn't require a monster footprint.
  - aidenn0 3y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azI3nqrHEXM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azI3nqrHEXM TL;DW: In 2008 CAFE introduced a formula that calculates the required MPG based off of the track times the wheelbase (basically the rectangle formed by the tires). Trucks are less aerodynamic than sedans, so small trucks can't be made that get sufficiently low MPG to meet this standard, and thus even though a smaller truck would use less fuel than a larger truck that meets the standard.
    - rurp 3y ago
      Am I missing something or is this regulation as dumb as I think it is? It seems to have the effect of replacing a bunch of small trucks on the road with giant trucks that get much worse mileage overall.
      - aidenn0 3y ago
        It's dumb, but also don't forget that any law that will disproportionately hurt Ford is going to be a non-starter; over 650k F-150s sold in a year. [edit] Ford existing necessitates allowing pickups, it doesn't necessitate forcing them to be large. I'm just pointing out that any regulation that makes pickups unsaleable altogether is not going to work.
      - 3y ago
fwungy 3y ago
Toyota has a small pickup in the works for the US market to compete with the Ford Maverick, which is a huge success. Probably won't see it till 2027.
- samketchup 3y ago
  The Maverick is nowhere near a success. Powertrain issues aside, it was nearly impossible to buy the $20,000 trim of the truck. Sure you can buy a $40,000 optioned out hybrid version, but a used Frontier or Tacoma is a much better option for a $20,000 truck.
  - jonwachob91 3y ago
    If you ordered new from Ford, you'd get the maverick with your desired options at the advertised price. The problem was, it's such a great truck that the order books for the entire year have closed within DAYS of opening. It's the used ones, or the new orders declined by the customers and then sold by the dealerships, that are ridiculously priced. If you have the time, ordering from Ford is a great option to get a great value truck.
  - samsolomon 3y ago
    It’s been a smashing success for ford. The reason it was impossible to buy is the Ford sold the entire year’s production in a few days. Ford misjudging demand is a screw up, but it’s definitely a been a success.
    - red-iron-pine 3y ago
      > Ford misjudging demand is a screw up, but it’s definitely a been a success. as problems go, that's a good one to have. and keep in mind that covid, economic upheavals, and chip shortages messed with car production hard. labor issues may also be a challenge.
  - local_crmdgeon 3y ago
    The 2024 order bank for Maverick was open for like 3 weeks before it sold out. You might be able to order one for 25 MY if you get lucky + know a guy. It's nowhere near a success because it's so far past the line that it's obscene.
mesarvagya 3y ago
> If they could fit this out to pass safety regs in North America and keep the price under $20K And add dealer's markup fee and hidden fees, it will automatically touch 30K
- rayrey 3y ago
  Gotta have the undercoating
rewmie 3y ago
> Oooh, I would _absolutely_ buy one of these to tow with. From an outsider, that's the thing that baffles me the most about the current state of the whole world's auto industry. Sometimes it seems that all auto makers are colluding to prevent any competition based on price, and are instead invested in forcing this notion that the only possible consumer pressure is on seeking luxury features like onboard computers, touchscreens, media centers, etc etc. A vehicle's primary use is take people and objects from point A to B, and do so reliably and economically. The automotive industry is the textbook example of economy of scale. Why are we still seeing low-end cars being sold for small fortunes?
- swatcoder 3y ago
  > A vehicle's primary use is take people and objects from point A to B, and do so reliably Car longevity increased a ton in the last several decades years, and so "something that moves" isn't as central a motivation for new car sales anymore. If they just need something that moves, buyers can find countless used cars that still run and will keep doing so for hundreds of thousands of more miles. It's tough to compete in that space and come away with a worthwhile margin on top of fresh design and manufacturing costs. So manufacturers, who don't want to scale down sales and production, try to entice buyers with shiny things that aren't available on old models and focus on higher price tiers. And that it coincides with booming tech culture and its fashion/impulse-driven purchase cycles makes it that much easier for them.
  - DontchaKnowit 3y ago
    Dude the delta between new and used cars right now is virtually nothing. You can get a 2012 tacoma with 200k miles on it for like 28k or a brand new 2023 tacoma for 35k. New is a better deal just based on the projected mechanical life of the car. Dont need fancy features to sell it
    - callalex 3y ago
      The projected longevity of trucks is actually going back down again, which is why the older ones are holding value. The modern ones are full to the brim with computer/DRM enforced anti-repair measures so that the dealership can profiteer.
jiveturkey 3y ago
What are you going to tow? The unbraked tow capacity is 750Kg. The fact that there even is an unbraked vs braked capacity points to how horrible (ie, not roadworthy) this vehicle is. Excellent farm truck, I assume, or Toyota wouldn't put their name on it. But not something you are going to use on highways in the US, and esp not with a trailer.

gottorf 3y ago

A small pickup, at least with any kind of ICE, is literally illegal to sell here due to CAFE regulations, which are strangely based on the footprint of the car. An actually small pickup would have to be as fuel-efficient as sedans and small SUVs, which isn't going to work out. EVs will work, but not at that sub-$20k price point.

nathanaldensr 3y ago
People don't even realize that the government agencies responsible for saving us from "climate change" are the same ones causing absolutely stupid issues like this.
- gsk22 3y ago
  Why the scare quotes? Are we still pretending climate change isn't real? The rest of your point is totally valid (CAFE is a textbook example of well-intentioned regulations backfiring spectacularly). But the climate denier nonsense kinda spoils the message.
  - paulddraper 3y ago
    > Are we still pretending climate change isn't real? We are pretending that what the government is interested in isn't climate change.
    - roelschroeven 3y ago
      I guess it would be clearer if the scare quotes where around the whole "saving us from climate change".
jstarfish 3y ago
This can't be right. Maybe it is, but it makes no sense. The 90s Frontier is a tiny little thing, almost what a Kei truck is today. Same with the Ranger. An El Camino is bigger. I bought a base Frontier in 2017, wanting that tiny truck but ended up with something the size of a 90s F150. Literally the smallest option on the market, whose weak-ass v4 struggles to haul its own weight (and has the turning radius of an aircraft carrier). Tacomas? I like Toyota but the used market for those is worse than MSRP. And Ford stopped making the Ranger; the Maverick ain't it. It's basically what I have already. How is this the result of new efficiency standards? We still have small cars on the road. Cutting the roof off and appending a flatbed doesn't require a monster footprint.
- aidenn0 3y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azI3nqrHEXM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azI3nqrHEXM TL;DW: In 2008 CAFE introduced a formula that calculates the required MPG based off of the track times the wheelbase (basically the rectangle formed by the tires). Trucks are less aerodynamic than sedans, so small trucks can't be made that get sufficiently low MPG to meet this standard, and thus even though a smaller truck would use less fuel than a larger truck that meets the standard.
  - rurp 3y ago
    Am I missing something or is this regulation as dumb as I think it is? It seems to have the effect of replacing a bunch of small trucks on the road with giant trucks that get much worse mileage overall.
    - aidenn0 3y ago
      It's dumb, but also don't forget that any law that will disproportionately hurt Ford is going to be a non-starter; over 650k F-150s sold in a year. [edit] Ford existing necessitates allowing pickups, it doesn't necessitate forcing them to be large. I'm just pointing out that any regulation that makes pickups unsaleable altogether is not going to work.
    - 3y ago

fwungy 3y ago

Toyota has a small pickup in the works for the US market to compete with the Ford Maverick, which is a huge success. Probably won't see it till 2027.

samketchup 3y ago
The Maverick is nowhere near a success. Powertrain issues aside, it was nearly impossible to buy the $20,000 trim of the truck. Sure you can buy a $40,000 optioned out hybrid version, but a used Frontier or Tacoma is a much better option for a $20,000 truck.
- jonwachob91 3y ago
  If you ordered new from Ford, you'd get the maverick with your desired options at the advertised price. The problem was, it's such a great truck that the order books for the entire year have closed within DAYS of opening. It's the used ones, or the new orders declined by the customers and then sold by the dealerships, that are ridiculously priced. If you have the time, ordering from Ford is a great option to get a great value truck.
- samsolomon 3y ago
  It’s been a smashing success for ford. The reason it was impossible to buy is the Ford sold the entire year’s production in a few days. Ford misjudging demand is a screw up, but it’s definitely a been a success.
  - red-iron-pine 3y ago
    > Ford misjudging demand is a screw up, but it’s definitely a been a success. as problems go, that's a good one to have. and keep in mind that covid, economic upheavals, and chip shortages messed with car production hard. labor issues may also be a challenge.
- local_crmdgeon 3y ago
  The 2024 order bank for Maverick was open for like 3 weeks before it sold out. You might be able to order one for 25 MY if you get lucky + know a guy. It's nowhere near a success because it's so far past the line that it's obscene.

mesarvagya 3y ago

> If they could fit this out to pass safety regs in North America and keep the price under $20K And add dealer's markup fee and hidden fees, it will automatically touch 30K

rayrey 3y ago
Gotta have the undercoating

rewmie 3y ago

> Oooh, I would _absolutely_ buy one of these to tow with. From an outsider, that's the thing that baffles me the most about the current state of the whole world's auto industry. Sometimes it seems that all auto makers are colluding to prevent any competition based on price, and are instead invested in forcing this notion that the only possible consumer pressure is on seeking luxury features like onboard computers, touchscreens, media centers, etc etc. A vehicle's primary use is take people and objects from point A to B, and do so reliably and economically. The automotive industry is the textbook example of economy of scale. Why are we still seeing low-end cars being sold for small fortunes?

swatcoder 3y ago
> A vehicle's primary use is take people and objects from point A to B, and do so reliably Car longevity increased a ton in the last several decades years, and so "something that moves" isn't as central a motivation for new car sales anymore. If they just need something that moves, buyers can find countless used cars that still run and will keep doing so for hundreds of thousands of more miles. It's tough to compete in that space and come away with a worthwhile margin on top of fresh design and manufacturing costs. So manufacturers, who don't want to scale down sales and production, try to entice buyers with shiny things that aren't available on old models and focus on higher price tiers. And that it coincides with booming tech culture and its fashion/impulse-driven purchase cycles makes it that much easier for them.
- DontchaKnowit 3y ago
  Dude the delta between new and used cars right now is virtually nothing. You can get a 2012 tacoma with 200k miles on it for like 28k or a brand new 2023 tacoma for 35k. New is a better deal just based on the projected mechanical life of the car. Dont need fancy features to sell it
  - callalex 3y ago
    The projected longevity of trucks is actually going back down again, which is why the older ones are holding value. The modern ones are full to the brim with computer/DRM enforced anti-repair measures so that the dealership can profiteer.

jiveturkey 3y ago

What are you going to tow? The unbraked tow capacity is 750Kg. The fact that there even is an unbraked vs braked capacity points to how horrible (ie, not roadworthy) this vehicle is. Excellent farm truck, I assume, or Toyota wouldn't put their name on it. But not something you are going to use on highways in the US, and esp not with a trailer.