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Blaming contractors/subcontractors is so hot right now. Cloudflare. Equinix. No accountability.

by xyst 3y ago

ToucanLoucan 3y ago
Does this surprise you? What is a corporation if not a legal entity designed to launder responsibility? Have a problem with a service and you find out the company you bought from subcontracts to an LLC you've never heard of which in turn subcontracts to four other LLCs one of which is actually liable but only if you can figure out which one, and oh by the way yours has two employees and it's headquarters is a UPS Store box, good fucking luck.
- gottorf 3y ago
  > What is a corporation if not a legal entity designed to launder responsibility? Corporations (and other legal entities used for business) are legal fictions that allow people to pool capital for productive endeavors and yes, with limited liability on the parts of the owners, because we as a society decided that encouraging productive endeavors this way is better than the alternative. In a world with no limited liability, you could happily wring the owner's neck if they screwed up, but I'd imagine society as a whole would be a lot poorer off, because very few people would take that risk to engage in productive endeavors. > Have a problem with a service and you find out the company you bought from subcontracts to an LLC you've never heard of which in turn subcontracts to four other LLCs one of which is actually liable It doesn't matter, because the company you actually paid money to is the one that's responsible to you.
  - ip26 3y ago
    I'd imagine society as a whole would be a lot poorer off, because very few people would take that risk Oh, people would make risky ventures alright, but you’d see a lot more private security of the Pinkerton variety.
  - lawlessone 3y ago
    >In a world with no limited liability, you could happily wring the owner's neck if they screwed up I'd say more than a few people would like that opportunity with Boeing
  - throw0101c 3y ago
    > Corporations (and other legal entities used for business) are legal fictions that allow people to pool capital for productive endeavors and yes, with limited liability on the parts of the owners, because we as a society decided that encouraging productive endeavors this way is better than the alternative. Worth noting that legal 'collectives' date back to Ancient Rome, city charters, monasteries, guilds in the Middle Ages, etc. While they are currently called corporation, from the Latin corpus for "body (of people)": * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation#History The original term was from the Latin universitas, and were universities in (relatively) more modern times when the concept saw uptick in usage (1100s AD). * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University#History The first collectives were either groups of students coming together to hire teachers (Bologna), or teachers coming together (Paris). * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Bologna#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Bologna#History * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Paris#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Paris#History Your local municipality, county, country, etc, are all legal fictions that act as a legal person. Turns out the concept is handy in many situations: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_person https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_person
kristjank 3y ago
Considering how every vendor has been shoving cloud, serverless, and anything-but-on-premise solutions down everyone's throat for the better part of the century so far, does that really surprise you? It's shitty landlord syndrome all over again. Tenants should have the right to complain and wave their sharpened pitchforks at them.
- screwturner68 3y ago
  you get what you pay for, these companies have been racing to the bottom for years, trying to save that extra penny because IT is considered a cost center and always has been. In addition moving to the cloud is just a way to shrug off responsibility, it's not our fault it's AWS.....actually it is your fault because you were trying trying to save money and you handed off your business to the lowest priced contractor and now are surprised that the contractor doesn't care about your business nearly as much as you do.
throw0101c 3y ago
> […] is so hot right now. Literally in this case.

Blaming contractors/subcontractors is so hot right now. Cloudflare. Equinix. No accountability.

by xyst 3y ago

Blaming contractors/subcontractors is so hot right now. Cloudflare. Equinix. No accountability.

Does this surprise you? What is a corporation if not a legal entity designed to launder responsibility? Have a problem with a service and you find out the company you bought from subcontracts to an LLC you've never heard of which in turn subcontracts to four other LLCs one of which is actually liable but only if you can figure out which one, and oh by the way yours has two employees and it's headquarters is a UPS Store box, good fucking luck.

gottorf 3y ago
> What is a corporation if not a legal entity designed to launder responsibility? Corporations (and other legal entities used for business) are legal fictions that allow people to pool capital for productive endeavors and yes, with limited liability on the parts of the owners, because we as a society decided that encouraging productive endeavors this way is better than the alternative. In a world with no limited liability, you could happily wring the owner's neck if they screwed up, but I'd imagine society as a whole would be a lot poorer off, because very few people would take that risk to engage in productive endeavors. > Have a problem with a service and you find out the company you bought from subcontracts to an LLC you've never heard of which in turn subcontracts to four other LLCs one of which is actually liable It doesn't matter, because the company you actually paid money to is the one that's responsible to you.
- ip26 3y ago
  I'd imagine society as a whole would be a lot poorer off, because very few people would take that risk Oh, people would make risky ventures alright, but you’d see a lot more private security of the Pinkerton variety.
- lawlessone 3y ago
  >In a world with no limited liability, you could happily wring the owner's neck if they screwed up I'd say more than a few people would like that opportunity with Boeing
- throw0101c 3y ago
  > Corporations (and other legal entities used for business) are legal fictions that allow people to pool capital for productive endeavors and yes, with limited liability on the parts of the owners, because we as a society decided that encouraging productive endeavors this way is better than the alternative. Worth noting that legal 'collectives' date back to Ancient Rome, city charters, monasteries, guilds in the Middle Ages, etc. While they are currently called corporation, from the Latin corpus for "body (of people)": * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation#History The original term was from the Latin universitas, and were universities in (relatively) more modern times when the concept saw uptick in usage (1100s AD). * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University#History The first collectives were either groups of students coming together to hire teachers (Bologna), or teachers coming together (Paris). * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Bologna#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Bologna#History * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Paris#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Paris#History Your local municipality, county, country, etc, are all legal fictions that act as a legal person. Turns out the concept is handy in many situations: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_person https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_person

kristjank 3y ago

Considering how every vendor has been shoving cloud, serverless, and anything-but-on-premise solutions down everyone's throat for the better part of the century so far, does that really surprise you? It's shitty landlord syndrome all over again. Tenants should have the right to complain and wave their sharpened pitchforks at them.

screwturner68 3y ago
you get what you pay for, these companies have been racing to the bottom for years, trying to save that extra penny because IT is considered a cost center and always has been. In addition moving to the cloud is just a way to shrug off responsibility, it's not our fault it's AWS.....actually it is your fault because you were trying trying to save money and you handed off your business to the lowest priced contractor and now are surprised that the contractor doesn't care about your business nearly as much as you do.

throw0101c 3y ago

> […] is so hot right now. Literally in this case.