5 ms·

Yeah, the racial disparities in police use of force in San Francisco are incredible: https://missionlocal.org/2023/07/sfpd-use-of-force-racial-disparities-skyro

Yeah, the racial disparities in police use of force in San Francisco are incredible: https://missionlocal.org/2023/07/sfpd-use-of-force-racial-disparities-skyrocket/ https://missionlocal.org/2023/07/sfpd-use-of-force-racial-di... Black people get force used 12-15x more often. Hispanic, 2-3x. In historical context, this isn't particularly surprising. What's different about our modern era is the extent to which we're finally talking about it.

lm28469 3y ago
> Black people get force used 12-15x more often. And they're committing ~50% of homicides and shootings while being 5% of the SF population. Stats are a funny things, they say a lot of things depending on which ones you look at https://sfgov.org/policecommission//sites/default/files/Documents/PoliceCommission/PoliceCommission031021-CPSC%20SFPD_ProbAnalysisExecSummary.pdf https://sfgov.org/policecommission//sites/default/files/Docu...
- wpietri 3y ago
  I looked through all 47 pages of the document linked, and I didn't see any numbers on homicide convictions by race. Would you be so kind as to clarify your citation?
  - lm28469 3y ago
    Sure, page 22: https://sfgov.org/sfreentry/sites/default/files/FileCenter/Documents/2899-SF%20JRI%20report_FINAL_7-21.pdf https://sfgov.org/sfreentry/sites/default/files/FileCenter/D...
    - wpietri 3y ago
      You're citing an entirely different document now? No wonder I couldn't find it.
  - d1sxeyes 3y ago
    Page 15 has a table where of 164 homicide suspects 46.6% were Black, despite making up only 5.2% of the population. While it is possible that these suspects are all incorrectly accused, it does indeed seem to support OP’s conclusion. Now the question comes: why is this the case, and how can we address it? I don’t have evidence to support this, but I would imagine that race is an unfortunate proxy for socioeconomic status, and that, rather than race, is the main driver for these homicides. The report goes on to link drugs, gang membership, and other factors which are more significant issues in more deprived communities to these homicides, which suggest at least a reasonably circumspect approach to the problem.
    - lm28469 3y ago
      > Now the question comes: why is this the case, and how can we address it? Yes that's my point too, saying "police bad because they arrest black people more" while ignoring the entire context is as bad as saying "black people bad because they commit more crimes" while ignoring the context. In both cases you're looking at the rusty last link of a very long chain
    - wpietri 3y ago
      > While it is possible that these suspects are all incorrectly accused, it does indeed seem to support OP’s conclusion. We absolutely cannot use stats on suspects, who are chosen by police, to demonstrate that there is no police bias in use of force.
      - d1sxeyes 3y ago
        I wasn’t, and to be clear, I was making absolutely no comment on whether there is bias in the use of force or not. I was instead saying the OP is likely reasonable to infer from the data that Black men are disproportionately likely to be involved in homicides. While it is of course possible that suspects are wrongly accused, victims’ ethnicities should be fairly clear.
        wpietri 3y ago
        That's not what the OP said. He said, "And they're committing ~50% of homicides and shootings."

lm28469 3y ago

> Black people get force used 12-15x more often. And they're committing ~50% of homicides and shootings while being 5% of the SF population. Stats are a funny things, they say a lot of things depending on which ones you look at https://sfgov.org/policecommission//sites/default/files/Documents/PoliceCommission/PoliceCommission031021-CPSC%20SFPD_ProbAnalysisExecSummary.pdf https://sfgov.org/policecommission//sites/default/files/Docu...

wpietri 3y ago
I looked through all 47 pages of the document linked, and I didn't see any numbers on homicide convictions by race. Would you be so kind as to clarify your citation?
- lm28469 3y ago
  Sure, page 22: https://sfgov.org/sfreentry/sites/default/files/FileCenter/Documents/2899-SF%20JRI%20report_FINAL_7-21.pdf https://sfgov.org/sfreentry/sites/default/files/FileCenter/D...
  - wpietri 3y ago
    You're citing an entirely different document now? No wonder I couldn't find it.
- d1sxeyes 3y ago
  Page 15 has a table where of 164 homicide suspects 46.6% were Black, despite making up only 5.2% of the population. While it is possible that these suspects are all incorrectly accused, it does indeed seem to support OP’s conclusion. Now the question comes: why is this the case, and how can we address it? I don’t have evidence to support this, but I would imagine that race is an unfortunate proxy for socioeconomic status, and that, rather than race, is the main driver for these homicides. The report goes on to link drugs, gang membership, and other factors which are more significant issues in more deprived communities to these homicides, which suggest at least a reasonably circumspect approach to the problem.
  - lm28469 3y ago
    > Now the question comes: why is this the case, and how can we address it? Yes that's my point too, saying "police bad because they arrest black people more" while ignoring the entire context is as bad as saying "black people bad because they commit more crimes" while ignoring the context. In both cases you're looking at the rusty last link of a very long chain
  - wpietri 3y ago
    > While it is possible that these suspects are all incorrectly accused, it does indeed seem to support OP’s conclusion. We absolutely cannot use stats on suspects, who are chosen by police, to demonstrate that there is no police bias in use of force.
    - d1sxeyes 3y ago
      I wasn’t, and to be clear, I was making absolutely no comment on whether there is bias in the use of force or not. I was instead saying the OP is likely reasonable to infer from the data that Black men are disproportionately likely to be involved in homicides. While it is of course possible that suspects are wrongly accused, victims’ ethnicities should be fairly clear.
      - wpietri 3y ago
        That's not what the OP said. He said, "And they're committing ~50% of homicides and shootings."