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>What sane person would do this? I use Gmail, and have exclusively used the web app and Android app to access it, for, what, 15 years? I don't think it's insan

>What sane person would do this? I use Gmail, and have exclusively used the web app and Android app to access it, for, what, 15 years? I don't think it's insane, if those apps work well.

mk89 3y ago
Indeed, it seems that if you don't run your own kubernetes you're not cool enough. Products should just work the way they are intended to be. Apple built an empire on this simple concept. But hey, "open source all things" have decided I must use 4 products from 4 different providers to send an receive emails so that I am "safe".
- Beijinger 3y ago
  "But hey, "open source all things" have decided I must use 4 products from 4 different providers to send an receive emails so that I am "safe"." Depends. For my mother? She is fine with gmail. But an IT savvy person should consider having their own email domain. And why not host your own rss reader and a few other things. It is rarely a good idea to buy this out of one hand. So domain registrar (e.g. internet.bs ), email hosting (e.g. infomaniak.com ) and hosting (e.g. nearlyfreespeech.net ). So we are close to your 4 different providers. "Products should just work the way they are intended to be." Until they don't. Until you get blocked (try calling google email customer service). Or until they go bankrupt. Your license? Sorry, the server for license validation does not exist anymore. Or until somebody decides what you can do with the product and what not. Doing your own thing and using open source gives your freedom. if you don't pay for the product you are the product.
  - mk89 3y ago
    > But an IT savvy person should consider having their own email domain. Having email domain is different than hosting your own email servers. And even that - why would I care so much? There are plenty of articles here on HN of people telling how hard it is to host your own email servers. Plus, tech-savvy doesn't mean I want to waste 2 hours a week updating managing servers etc., while I could maybe learn ... "Flutter"? Or technology X. Or something else completely different. In general, assuming what a group of people should or shouldn't do seems pretty naive to me. > if you don't pay for the product you are the product. I pay for Fastmail and it works. Until when? I can't tell - I hope they don't go bankrupt. But they offer a good service, decent price, and it gives me 1-2 hours of life back per week or month. I understand your counterarguments, however nowadays there is enough variety that enables us to use products and services for quite some time. Even open source can get you into "vendor" lock-in, especially when a tool or product doesn't evolve anymore and the community doesn't have interest or manpower to improve it.
    - Beijinger 3y ago
      I said buy email as a hosted service. I consider myself IT savvy but I am not a CS guy. I tried hosting my own email before and I can assure you, if you are not absolutely sure you know what you are doing (inc. spam, greylisting, blacklisting etc.). DONT DO IT. I would possibly even be impossible to send email to services like t-online if you really host your own email.
Beijinger 3y ago
Your example is wrong. Gmail offers standard email services that you CAN access via a proprietary Google app OR to a regular app. I use my gmail account with IMAP via Thunderbird. As long as IMAP access is offered, everything is fine. As a word of caution: Should you ever lose access to your gmail account, you run into deep trouble. I currently can't access my gmail. I know the password, I have access to my backup email but it won't let me log-in except if I am able to confirm it on my android phone. And my US android phone is out of service. I have to fly to the US to get this working again (Google project fi).
CuriousCosmic 3y ago
But even with gmail, they give you the option to use your own apps because they support standard protocols that you can use to sync your emails. For E2EE email it's a bit different because most of the standard protocols don't work out of the box but it's very clear that whatever system Tuta uses works locally or they wouldn't have anything but a web app. I'm not saying don't prioritise your apps, I just want to be able to mutt and send in patches easily. And my grandparents want to use their outlook because it's what they know how to use.

>What sane person would do this? I use Gmail, and have exclusively used the web app and Android app to access it, for, what, 15 years? I don't think it's insane, if those apps work well.

mk89 3y ago

Indeed, it seems that if you don't run your own kubernetes you're not cool enough. Products should just work the way they are intended to be. Apple built an empire on this simple concept. But hey, "open source all things" have decided I must use 4 products from 4 different providers to send an receive emails so that I am "safe".

Beijinger 3y ago
"But hey, "open source all things" have decided I must use 4 products from 4 different providers to send an receive emails so that I am "safe"." Depends. For my mother? She is fine with gmail. But an IT savvy person should consider having their own email domain. And why not host your own rss reader and a few other things. It is rarely a good idea to buy this out of one hand. So domain registrar (e.g. internet.bs ), email hosting (e.g. infomaniak.com ) and hosting (e.g. nearlyfreespeech.net ). So we are close to your 4 different providers. "Products should just work the way they are intended to be." Until they don't. Until you get blocked (try calling google email customer service). Or until they go bankrupt. Your license? Sorry, the server for license validation does not exist anymore. Or until somebody decides what you can do with the product and what not. Doing your own thing and using open source gives your freedom. if you don't pay for the product you are the product.
- mk89 3y ago
  > But an IT savvy person should consider having their own email domain. Having email domain is different than hosting your own email servers. And even that - why would I care so much? There are plenty of articles here on HN of people telling how hard it is to host your own email servers. Plus, tech-savvy doesn't mean I want to waste 2 hours a week updating managing servers etc., while I could maybe learn ... "Flutter"? Or technology X. Or something else completely different. In general, assuming what a group of people should or shouldn't do seems pretty naive to me. > if you don't pay for the product you are the product. I pay for Fastmail and it works. Until when? I can't tell - I hope they don't go bankrupt. But they offer a good service, decent price, and it gives me 1-2 hours of life back per week or month. I understand your counterarguments, however nowadays there is enough variety that enables us to use products and services for quite some time. Even open source can get you into "vendor" lock-in, especially when a tool or product doesn't evolve anymore and the community doesn't have interest or manpower to improve it.
  - Beijinger 3y ago
    I said buy email as a hosted service. I consider myself IT savvy but I am not a CS guy. I tried hosting my own email before and I can assure you, if you are not absolutely sure you know what you are doing (inc. spam, greylisting, blacklisting etc.). DONT DO IT. I would possibly even be impossible to send email to services like t-online if you really host your own email.

Beijinger 3y ago

Your example is wrong. Gmail offers standard email services that you CAN access via a proprietary Google app OR to a regular app. I use my gmail account with IMAP via Thunderbird. As long as IMAP access is offered, everything is fine. As a word of caution: Should you ever lose access to your gmail account, you run into deep trouble. I currently can't access my gmail. I know the password, I have access to my backup email but it won't let me log-in except if I am able to confirm it on my android phone. And my US android phone is out of service. I have to fly to the US to get this working again (Google project fi).

CuriousCosmic 3y ago

But even with gmail, they give you the option to use your own apps because they support standard protocols that you can use to sync your emails. For E2EE email it's a bit different because most of the standard protocols don't work out of the box but it's very clear that whatever system Tuta uses works locally or they wouldn't have anything but a web app. I'm not saying don't prioritise your apps, I just want to be able to mutt and send in patches easily. And my grandparents want to use their outlook because it's what they know how to use.