3 ms·

My understanding is glass causes higher levels of carbon emotions b/c it is heavier to transport [0]. If you are re-using the jars, then that would have a lowe

by itake 3y ago

My understanding is glass causes higher levels of carbon emotions b/c it is heavier to transport [0]. If you are re-using the jars, then that would have a lower impact, but if you're buying jarred butter and jelly, you're making the problem worse. [0] - https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230427-glass-or-plastic-which-is-better-for-the-environment https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230427-glass-or-plastic...

azemetre 3y ago
I'd think the benefit of using glass, especially in the context of food and drink, would be lessening the amount of nano plastic your body digests. Besides it's not hard to tip the carbon emission in favor of glass if the externalities of plastic (and fuel) were appropriately priced and not massively subsidized.
- throwaway2037 3y ago
  About nano plastic: Are they any serious (respected), peer-reviewed scientific studies on the negative health effects of nano plastics? It is frequently mentioned by the "natural crowd" on HN, but I never see any scientific evidence shared.
  - elhudy 3y ago
    Even if there weren’t any studies on the harmful effects of plastic consumption (which I’m fairly certain there are at least theoretical mechanistic studies if you make the effort to look for them), it makes common sense to try to avoid that, no? I don’t think there are any studies on the effects of regularly drinking gasoline or eating toilet paper either, but plastic, gasoline, and toilet paper consumption aren't exactly time-tested foods that propelled civilization forward.
    - throwaway2037 3y ago
      What a silly reply. Yes, there are many studies about the consumption of hazardous chemicals, including gasoline. There are even many about just the fumes -- no need to regularly drink it. My point: The "hair on fire" comments about nano plastic still hasn't been borne out by peer-reviewed scientific research. I recall on HN someone mentioned that a recent discover was that tyre dust is a large potion of micro plastics in our world.
      - itake 3y ago
        I am with you on finding the studies that verify these hypotheses, but for newly discovered problems, I think there will not be any long-term impact studies, but we must make a decision today about if this is safe or not. It doesn't make sense to me that the plastic would be beneficial. It is either neutral or detrimental and I not that no plastic is neutral.
      - elhudy 3y ago
        If youre so certain about your ability to find long term studies on the consumption of micro-pieces of toilet paper or gasoline, then surely you can find one on plastic ;). Not many have their hair on fire. People just want to make a conscious effort to avoid what common sense says to avoid.
  - azemetre 3y ago
    I'm not aware of any truly long term studies but any substance that takes thousands of years to break down I don't want in my body at any level. Finding plastic in our blood doesn't seem healthy. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/24/microplastics-found-in-human-blood-for-first-time https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/24/micropla...
philip1209 3y ago
Glass correlates with higher levels of carbon emissions, but doesn't cause it. At Silo, wine causes a lot of headaches. Their solution is to use wind-powered transport ships. Then, they turn the waste glass into tiles. So, the carbon footprint is low. If you can tolerate slow shipping, then the carbon footprint can be reduced. So, well-preserved food in glass (as opposed to, say, flowers in plastic) can have a lower environmental impact. Plus, glass can be reasonably reused or recycled.
- kylebenzle 3y ago
  There is no active wind powered transport, obviously. The one ship they are testing is not shipiping anything yet. https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/22/travel/wind-powered-cargo-ship-cargill-bartech-climate-c2e-spc-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/22/travel/wind-powered-cargo-shi...
  - philip1209 3y ago
    Incorrect. "Three Dutchmen decided to take a step back to make a leap forward and established Fairtransport, the world’s first modern emission-free shipping company. Silo gets coffee via Fairtransport – it still has to be transported from the landing port, but it is a huge saving on energy. It’s a fine example of imaginative thinking. The small fleet of traditional sailing ships used by Fairtransport includes the world’s only engineless sailing cargo ship. The focus is on transporting special products which are organic or crafted traditionally – such as olive oil, wine and rum. In addition, the fleet is raising awareness of the huge amounts of pollution created by the modern shipping industry and is affecting positive change in the way goods are shipped around the world." McMaster, Douglas. Silo (p. 71). Leaping Hare Press. Kindle Edition. https://fairtransport.eu/en/ https://fairtransport.eu/en/
- throwaway2037 3y ago
  they turn the waste glass into tiles This is delusional. Think about how much heat energy it takes to melt glass to make tiles. There is no way this has a low carbon footprint. I applaud the PR team at Silo for convincing their customer base of this fantasy. The lifetime carbon footprint (from manufacturing to "recycling" / disposal) is much lower for plastic compared to glass. And, I write this post as someone who tries to reduce my plastic footprint as much as possible.
bmitc 3y ago
Glass is basically infinitely usable, aside from breaking it, and does not pollute the things that go in it or if it's tossed in a landfill. It's also the most easily recycled material with high yields (basically 100%).
- voidnap 3y ago
  I was recently made aware that some amount of glass is not recycled and instead turned into powder to cover landfills. Apparently, where I live, most used glass ends up this way; but I expect it varies between institutions. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/recycling-glass-eight-boroughs-landfill-1.6899978 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/recycling-glass-eigh...
  - bmitc 3y ago
    Yea, there is a lot of discrepancy between what is actually recycled or not, particularly from trash and recyclables coming from homes and municipalities. I keep wondering if there's an opportunity there to help improve the yields of recycling.

by itake 3y ago

azemetre 3y ago

I'd think the benefit of using glass, especially in the context of food and drink, would be lessening the amount of nano plastic your body digests. Besides it's not hard to tip the carbon emission in favor of glass if the externalities of plastic (and fuel) were appropriately priced and not massively subsidized.

throwaway2037 3y ago
About nano plastic: Are they any serious (respected), peer-reviewed scientific studies on the negative health effects of nano plastics? It is frequently mentioned by the "natural crowd" on HN, but I never see any scientific evidence shared.
- elhudy 3y ago
  Even if there weren’t any studies on the harmful effects of plastic consumption (which I’m fairly certain there are at least theoretical mechanistic studies if you make the effort to look for them), it makes common sense to try to avoid that, no? I don’t think there are any studies on the effects of regularly drinking gasoline or eating toilet paper either, but plastic, gasoline, and toilet paper consumption aren't exactly time-tested foods that propelled civilization forward.
  - throwaway2037 3y ago
    What a silly reply. Yes, there are many studies about the consumption of hazardous chemicals, including gasoline. There are even many about just the fumes -- no need to regularly drink it. My point: The "hair on fire" comments about nano plastic still hasn't been borne out by peer-reviewed scientific research. I recall on HN someone mentioned that a recent discover was that tyre dust is a large potion of micro plastics in our world.
    - itake 3y ago
      I am with you on finding the studies that verify these hypotheses, but for newly discovered problems, I think there will not be any long-term impact studies, but we must make a decision today about if this is safe or not. It doesn't make sense to me that the plastic would be beneficial. It is either neutral or detrimental and I not that no plastic is neutral.
    - elhudy 3y ago
      If youre so certain about your ability to find long term studies on the consumption of micro-pieces of toilet paper or gasoline, then surely you can find one on plastic ;). Not many have their hair on fire. People just want to make a conscious effort to avoid what common sense says to avoid.
- azemetre 3y ago
  I'm not aware of any truly long term studies but any substance that takes thousands of years to break down I don't want in my body at any level. Finding plastic in our blood doesn't seem healthy. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/24/microplastics-found-in-human-blood-for-first-time https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/24/micropla...

philip1209 3y ago

Glass correlates with higher levels of carbon emissions, but doesn't cause it. At Silo, wine causes a lot of headaches. Their solution is to use wind-powered transport ships. Then, they turn the waste glass into tiles. So, the carbon footprint is low. If you can tolerate slow shipping, then the carbon footprint can be reduced. So, well-preserved food in glass (as opposed to, say, flowers in plastic) can have a lower environmental impact. Plus, glass can be reasonably reused or recycled.

kylebenzle 3y ago
There is no active wind powered transport, obviously. The one ship they are testing is not shipiping anything yet. https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/22/travel/wind-powered-cargo-ship-cargill-bartech-climate-c2e-spc-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/22/travel/wind-powered-cargo-shi...
- philip1209 3y ago
  Incorrect. "Three Dutchmen decided to take a step back to make a leap forward and established Fairtransport, the world’s first modern emission-free shipping company. Silo gets coffee via Fairtransport – it still has to be transported from the landing port, but it is a huge saving on energy. It’s a fine example of imaginative thinking. The small fleet of traditional sailing ships used by Fairtransport includes the world’s only engineless sailing cargo ship. The focus is on transporting special products which are organic or crafted traditionally – such as olive oil, wine and rum. In addition, the fleet is raising awareness of the huge amounts of pollution created by the modern shipping industry and is affecting positive change in the way goods are shipped around the world." McMaster, Douglas. Silo (p. 71). Leaping Hare Press. Kindle Edition. https://fairtransport.eu/en/ https://fairtransport.eu/en/
throwaway2037 3y ago
they turn the waste glass into tiles This is delusional. Think about how much heat energy it takes to melt glass to make tiles. There is no way this has a low carbon footprint. I applaud the PR team at Silo for convincing their customer base of this fantasy. The lifetime carbon footprint (from manufacturing to "recycling" / disposal) is much lower for plastic compared to glass. And, I write this post as someone who tries to reduce my plastic footprint as much as possible.

bmitc 3y ago

Glass is basically infinitely usable, aside from breaking it, and does not pollute the things that go in it or if it's tossed in a landfill. It's also the most easily recycled material with high yields (basically 100%).

voidnap 3y ago
I was recently made aware that some amount of glass is not recycled and instead turned into powder to cover landfills. Apparently, where I live, most used glass ends up this way; but I expect it varies between institutions. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/recycling-glass-eight-boroughs-landfill-1.6899978 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/recycling-glass-eigh...
- bmitc 3y ago
  Yea, there is a lot of discrepancy between what is actually recycled or not, particularly from trash and recyclables coming from homes and municipalities. I keep wondering if there's an opportunity there to help improve the yields of recycling.