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There's no reason the party with unsafe UV lights had to be a crypto-party. While I'm no NFT bagholder, it bothers me that the article is mostly about dunking o

There's no reason the party with unsafe UV lights had to be a crypto-party. While I'm no NFT bagholder, it bothers me that the article is mostly about dunking on cryptobros than talking about the dangers of hazardous lighting rigs at a show. At any event, how is an attendee supposed to assess such a thing? It's not like you can DYOR.

Breza 3y ago
I appreciate your thoughts here. I think one reason for the crypto criticism is the frequent use of "laser eyes" by members of the community. This story just fits too well not to bring it up.
rainsford 3y ago
> At any event, how is an attendee supposed to assess such a thing? It's not like you can DYOR. That's why I think the cryptobro angle is relevant to the story, because assessing trust in the folks putting on a conference is the way for attendees to figure out if they're likely to be blinded by the lighting or face other issues. And the type of people the whole cryptocurrency and especially NFT scene attract seem at least in my opinion to be way more likely to put on a conference with hazardous lighting than more reputable organizers. Everything about that whole space gives off a Fyre Festival vibe, which seems like pretty fair warning about going to an actual event organized by cryptobros.
- endgame 3y ago
  > That's why I think the cryptobro angle is relevant to the story That's an interesting perspective, and reminds me a bit of the "libertarian paradise" at the end of http://bitsim.beepboopbitcoin.com/ http://bitsim.beepboopbitcoin.com/ . But the fact that it's framed more as a dunk than as genuine sympathy for those affected reminds me of other anti-crypto reporting like "Line Go Up" ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ_xWvX1n9g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ_xWvX1n9g ). Which makes it really hard to recommend it as a way to break people out. Given a choice between reporting which mocks crypto victims and reporting which might actually help get people away from the rigged casino, I'd prefer to see articles aiming for the latter.
  - rainsford 3y ago
    I would actually tend to agree. I think the organizers deserve all the scorn and dunking in the world, but I'm less comfortable about that framing for those impacted. "Conference organized by the monkey JPG people" should be a major red flag, but it wasn't a red flag for the target audience for probably the same reason "monkey JPG" wasn't in the first place. Similar to the Fyre Festival, the real villains are the scammers (or idiots, if you're giving them the benefit of the doubt) running the show, not the people who fall victim to the scam. Cryptocurrency and NFTs fall into that category where I think recognizing the BS requires a level of technical knowledge that is unreasonable to expect everyone to have. Dunking on people who don't get the technical argument for why NFTs and the people promoting them are BS does not feel like the way.
    - eru 3y ago
      NFTs, and even monkey JPG NFTs, are perfectly sensible when viewed as art projects. (Not as finance: financially, monkey JPG NFTs are rather silly.) And by 'sensible' I mean sensible compared to weird things other people either do for art or spend money on for art. Compare eg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performance_art https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performance_art (and that's far from the most egregious corner).
      - hnfong 3y ago
        Arguably Christie's (the auction house) invented the concept of NFT before there were NFTs. I mean, the value of art may be undervalued by society in general, but paintings that sell for hundreds of millions of dollars is just insane. The art collectors are just using art pieces in the same way crypto folks are using NFTs. The only apparent difference is that there's no physical object for NFTs, but the physical object was never the main value proposition for traditional high value art anyway.
        meowface 3y ago
        You're absolutely right, but at least there is some underlying art-intended-as-art there. Just as much of the stock market can be viewed the same way but at least there usually is an underlying company with some value behind the stocks. With NFTs there really is nothing there. It's finance without any art component.
- plagiarist 3y ago
  I would have mistakenly assumed there are like regulations or common sense preventing blasting people in the eyes with raw UV regardless of the event. This story is a rude awakening for me that one does have to asses event planners for competence, not only for remote Fyre Festivals but also for regular venues. I hope the attendees recover.
  - Doxin 3y ago
    Presumably the same regulations apply here that apply to not stabbing people. Outlawing stupidity surprisingly only has limited effectiveness.
- hbbio 3y ago
  "in my opinion to be way more likely" I have no data but still, here's my bias.
  - endofreach 3y ago
    It is so annoying... ehag do people believe "in my opinion" means? Also: is everything you believe actually based on facts? If not, by posting your comment just showed a whole bunch of biases that are secretly controlling you.
    - pauselaugh 3y ago
      in customer experience design the user's perception is objective reality. so it's not "i have no data but here's my bias," it's "anecdote IS the singular of data, not only that, but data doesn't matter: what matters is what happened to me." i can't imagine going to a movie theater and getting your arm lopped off by a whirling sawblade, but since you have no data on the frequency of it, your anecdote is an inaccurate overgeneralization, and you should not dare to assert that an entity that throws raves that burn and blind people are more likely to jump into trends recklessly with such limited information. I don't have a spreadsheet handy, but I will say that entities that consider these types of happenings as good investments are trying to embody the "don't miss out on being cool at the cool party" moreso than the "there is no party because we are interested in having a conservative and responsible image to bolster our solid technological foundation" side of the spectrum. I'll get back to you after I get back from the ayahuasca + squirrel wingsuit base jump retreat my retirement fund manager is holding
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  It was a rave open to the general public. How many people actually consider the reputation of someone setting up a party or rave. Half the time it IS someone out of their mind on drugs in a condemned warehouse or the middle of the desert .
  - Spivak 3y ago
    I think you picked the one avenue where people are wary of the person putting on the event because you are gonna be tripping and need to be in a reasonably safe environment, you will get your hearing destroyed in only a few hours by some idiots who think that turning it up to 11 makes for a better show, and raving is a community of regulars that have collective memory for bad reputation. It's funny because what you're describing with the warehouse is "the afters" which unbeknownst to someone who isn't a regular has already established a reputation and been vetted by the community because they're all word of mouth. The point is that lack of reputation likely meant that despite the fact that it was public the usual partygoers weren't there. You typically need either a trusted organizer/venue or a trusted artist and their techs who's done this before and aren't gonna do something stupid.
  - technion 3y ago
    Wait.. just to be clear are you saying you could get in without owning one? I heard for years the "benefit you don't understand" is the exclusive club access. Exclusive nightclubs were a specific use case I kept seeing argued. If anyone can walk in it's not that exclusive. Heck people might just be a raver that doesn't care about crypto but showed up to dance.
    - Nursie 3y ago
      It seems like the club night/party was open to people who bought tickets for the "Open House" event they ran that day, for about $50 US - https://www.artazine.com/news/apefest-2023-nft-bored-ape-yacht-club-hong-kong https://www.artazine.com/news/apefest-2023-nft-bored-ape-yac... Hard to be sure though.
- aaron695 3y ago
  [dead]
- verulito 3y ago
  Can confirm. A crypto bro / lawyer invited me to learn to shoot. I hate guns but figured it was a way to spend time with him. The result is I now have noxacusis, a repetitive stress injury of the ear. At times I've been unable to tolerate everyday noises like talking or faucets. An unstudied condition that's hugely disabling. The other person in my city with this condition lives in a closet 24/7 with earmuffs. What's his excuse? "I'm a libertarian and I don't like when gun ranges bother me. I just want to get out there and shoot". Dumbfounding.
  - illumin8 3y ago
    Not all crypto bros are ignorant and don't know how to use proper hearing protection or firearm safety. In fact, not all of them are gun nuts or hardcore libertarians. 52 million Americans own crypto, do you really think they're all like that?
    - hoorible 3y ago
      “not all men”-ing libertarian crypto bro gun nuts is really a “fourth-level-down in Inception” own goal
      - porkbeer 3y ago
        Who was the gun nut in your fantasy? All I read was guys shooting and not wearing protection, something any 'gun nut' would know and preach. Seems you are inserting your own, unfounded, bias.
alephxyz 3y ago
Bring sunglasses (and ear protection while you're at it) when going to a concert.
- endgame 3y ago
  I can't stand the mixing at many concerts unless I wear earpro, but thanks for the reminder.
- account42 3y ago
  I'd rather not go at all at that point. Why bother going to a musical performance when you are just going to muffle the sound.
  - omar12 3y ago
    As an middle-aged man that loves to go to concerts, ear plugs are great and do not affect negatively the concert-going experience. Speakers are loud enough that you can feel the music and personally I get energized when people around me are enjoying the concert with me. Plus, your ears will thank you later :).
  - sicariusnoctis 3y ago
    See "concert earplugs" that try to reduce the volume with minimal distortion.
userbinator 3y ago
At any event, how is an attendee supposed to assess such a thing? If you see clear tubes emitting a light blue glow, close your eyes and get away ASAP. One of the few positive things about the pandemic may be that it's educated lot more people on what UVC lamps look like, as they're often used --- away from people --- for sterilisation purposes.
- sanderjd 3y ago
  What? I've seen lots of tubes that may or may not have been clear, I really don't know, emitting light blue glows. Like, I used to go into Spencer's at the local mall a couple decades ago... I would have no clue what the difference is here.
  - userbinator 3y ago
    They're made of a distinctively clear quartz glass (used because regular glass is quite effective at blocking UVC), and you can see the filaments at the ends. Hopefully you won't have to ever experience looking at a lit UVC tube, but they appear very different from regular fluorescents. The comment here has a link to a previous incident of this happening, which shows what UVC tubes look like: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38170902 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38170902
    - sanderjd 3y ago
      Well, good to know! Thanks! But this would not have previously been obvious to me at all.
  - jherazob 3y ago
    Here' a video on this incident, demonstrating the differences between the different tubes and showing what to look for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DlfLthx89E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DlfLthx89E
sandworm101 3y ago
Because part of cryptobro culture is thinking you know more than anyone else, and projecting an image of access to secret insider knowledge. Likely one of them just decided to be a lighting designer because they thought they new more than the professionals.
- tamimio 3y ago
  > Because part of cryptobro culture is thinking you know more than anyone else That’s basically the case with most if not all internet cultures.
gymbeaux 3y ago
It’s kind of a metaphor eh?

Breza 3y ago

I appreciate your thoughts here. I think one reason for the crypto criticism is the frequent use of "laser eyes" by members of the community. This story just fits too well not to bring it up.

rainsford 3y ago

> At any event, how is an attendee supposed to assess such a thing? It's not like you can DYOR. That's why I think the cryptobro angle is relevant to the story, because assessing trust in the folks putting on a conference is the way for attendees to figure out if they're likely to be blinded by the lighting or face other issues. And the type of people the whole cryptocurrency and especially NFT scene attract seem at least in my opinion to be way more likely to put on a conference with hazardous lighting than more reputable organizers. Everything about that whole space gives off a Fyre Festival vibe, which seems like pretty fair warning about going to an actual event organized by cryptobros.

endgame 3y ago
> That's why I think the cryptobro angle is relevant to the story That's an interesting perspective, and reminds me a bit of the "libertarian paradise" at the end of http://bitsim.beepboopbitcoin.com/ http://bitsim.beepboopbitcoin.com/ . But the fact that it's framed more as a dunk than as genuine sympathy for those affected reminds me of other anti-crypto reporting like "Line Go Up" ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ_xWvX1n9g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ_xWvX1n9g ). Which makes it really hard to recommend it as a way to break people out. Given a choice between reporting which mocks crypto victims and reporting which might actually help get people away from the rigged casino, I'd prefer to see articles aiming for the latter.
- rainsford 3y ago
  I would actually tend to agree. I think the organizers deserve all the scorn and dunking in the world, but I'm less comfortable about that framing for those impacted. "Conference organized by the monkey JPG people" should be a major red flag, but it wasn't a red flag for the target audience for probably the same reason "monkey JPG" wasn't in the first place. Similar to the Fyre Festival, the real villains are the scammers (or idiots, if you're giving them the benefit of the doubt) running the show, not the people who fall victim to the scam. Cryptocurrency and NFTs fall into that category where I think recognizing the BS requires a level of technical knowledge that is unreasonable to expect everyone to have. Dunking on people who don't get the technical argument for why NFTs and the people promoting them are BS does not feel like the way.
  - eru 3y ago
    NFTs, and even monkey JPG NFTs, are perfectly sensible when viewed as art projects. (Not as finance: financially, monkey JPG NFTs are rather silly.) And by 'sensible' I mean sensible compared to weird things other people either do for art or spend money on for art. Compare eg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performance_art https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performance_art (and that's far from the most egregious corner).
    - hnfong 3y ago
      Arguably Christie's (the auction house) invented the concept of NFT before there were NFTs. I mean, the value of art may be undervalued by society in general, but paintings that sell for hundreds of millions of dollars is just insane. The art collectors are just using art pieces in the same way crypto folks are using NFTs. The only apparent difference is that there's no physical object for NFTs, but the physical object was never the main value proposition for traditional high value art anyway.
      - meowface 3y ago
        You're absolutely right, but at least there is some underlying art-intended-as-art there. Just as much of the stock market can be viewed the same way but at least there usually is an underlying company with some value behind the stocks. With NFTs there really is nothing there. It's finance without any art component.
plagiarist 3y ago
I would have mistakenly assumed there are like regulations or common sense preventing blasting people in the eyes with raw UV regardless of the event. This story is a rude awakening for me that one does have to asses event planners for competence, not only for remote Fyre Festivals but also for regular venues. I hope the attendees recover.
- Doxin 3y ago
  Presumably the same regulations apply here that apply to not stabbing people. Outlawing stupidity surprisingly only has limited effectiveness.
hbbio 3y ago
"in my opinion to be way more likely" I have no data but still, here's my bias.
- endofreach 3y ago
  It is so annoying... ehag do people believe "in my opinion" means? Also: is everything you believe actually based on facts? If not, by posting your comment just showed a whole bunch of biases that are secretly controlling you.
  - pauselaugh 3y ago
    in customer experience design the user's perception is objective reality. so it's not "i have no data but here's my bias," it's "anecdote IS the singular of data, not only that, but data doesn't matter: what matters is what happened to me." i can't imagine going to a movie theater and getting your arm lopped off by a whirling sawblade, but since you have no data on the frequency of it, your anecdote is an inaccurate overgeneralization, and you should not dare to assert that an entity that throws raves that burn and blind people are more likely to jump into trends recklessly with such limited information. I don't have a spreadsheet handy, but I will say that entities that consider these types of happenings as good investments are trying to embody the "don't miss out on being cool at the cool party" moreso than the "there is no party because we are interested in having a conservative and responsible image to bolster our solid technological foundation" side of the spectrum. I'll get back to you after I get back from the ayahuasca + squirrel wingsuit base jump retreat my retirement fund manager is holding
s1artibartfast 3y ago
It was a rave open to the general public. How many people actually consider the reputation of someone setting up a party or rave. Half the time it IS someone out of their mind on drugs in a condemned warehouse or the middle of the desert .
- Spivak 3y ago
  I think you picked the one avenue where people are wary of the person putting on the event because you are gonna be tripping and need to be in a reasonably safe environment, you will get your hearing destroyed in only a few hours by some idiots who think that turning it up to 11 makes for a better show, and raving is a community of regulars that have collective memory for bad reputation. It's funny because what you're describing with the warehouse is "the afters" which unbeknownst to someone who isn't a regular has already established a reputation and been vetted by the community because they're all word of mouth. The point is that lack of reputation likely meant that despite the fact that it was public the usual partygoers weren't there. You typically need either a trusted organizer/venue or a trusted artist and their techs who's done this before and aren't gonna do something stupid.
- technion 3y ago
  Wait.. just to be clear are you saying you could get in without owning one? I heard for years the "benefit you don't understand" is the exclusive club access. Exclusive nightclubs were a specific use case I kept seeing argued. If anyone can walk in it's not that exclusive. Heck people might just be a raver that doesn't care about crypto but showed up to dance.
  - Nursie 3y ago
    It seems like the club night/party was open to people who bought tickets for the "Open House" event they ran that day, for about $50 US - https://www.artazine.com/news/apefest-2023-nft-bored-ape-yacht-club-hong-kong https://www.artazine.com/news/apefest-2023-nft-bored-ape-yac... Hard to be sure though.
aaron695 3y ago
[dead]
verulito 3y ago
Can confirm. A crypto bro / lawyer invited me to learn to shoot. I hate guns but figured it was a way to spend time with him. The result is I now have noxacusis, a repetitive stress injury of the ear. At times I've been unable to tolerate everyday noises like talking or faucets. An unstudied condition that's hugely disabling. The other person in my city with this condition lives in a closet 24/7 with earmuffs. What's his excuse? "I'm a libertarian and I don't like when gun ranges bother me. I just want to get out there and shoot". Dumbfounding.
- illumin8 3y ago
  Not all crypto bros are ignorant and don't know how to use proper hearing protection or firearm safety. In fact, not all of them are gun nuts or hardcore libertarians. 52 million Americans own crypto, do you really think they're all like that?
  - hoorible 3y ago
    “not all men”-ing libertarian crypto bro gun nuts is really a “fourth-level-down in Inception” own goal
    - porkbeer 3y ago
      Who was the gun nut in your fantasy? All I read was guys shooting and not wearing protection, something any 'gun nut' would know and preach. Seems you are inserting your own, unfounded, bias.

alephxyz 3y ago

Bring sunglasses (and ear protection while you're at it) when going to a concert.

endgame 3y ago
I can't stand the mixing at many concerts unless I wear earpro, but thanks for the reminder.
account42 3y ago
I'd rather not go at all at that point. Why bother going to a musical performance when you are just going to muffle the sound.
- omar12 3y ago
  As an middle-aged man that loves to go to concerts, ear plugs are great and do not affect negatively the concert-going experience. Speakers are loud enough that you can feel the music and personally I get energized when people around me are enjoying the concert with me. Plus, your ears will thank you later :).
- sicariusnoctis 3y ago
  See "concert earplugs" that try to reduce the volume with minimal distortion.

userbinator 3y ago

At any event, how is an attendee supposed to assess such a thing? If you see clear tubes emitting a light blue glow, close your eyes and get away ASAP. One of the few positive things about the pandemic may be that it's educated lot more people on what UVC lamps look like, as they're often used --- away from people --- for sterilisation purposes.

sanderjd 3y ago
What? I've seen lots of tubes that may or may not have been clear, I really don't know, emitting light blue glows. Like, I used to go into Spencer's at the local mall a couple decades ago... I would have no clue what the difference is here.
- userbinator 3y ago
  They're made of a distinctively clear quartz glass (used because regular glass is quite effective at blocking UVC), and you can see the filaments at the ends. Hopefully you won't have to ever experience looking at a lit UVC tube, but they appear very different from regular fluorescents. The comment here has a link to a previous incident of this happening, which shows what UVC tubes look like: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38170902 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38170902
  - sanderjd 3y ago
    Well, good to know! Thanks! But this would not have previously been obvious to me at all.
- jherazob 3y ago
  Here' a video on this incident, demonstrating the differences between the different tubes and showing what to look for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DlfLthx89E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DlfLthx89E

sandworm101 3y ago

Because part of cryptobro culture is thinking you know more than anyone else, and projecting an image of access to secret insider knowledge. Likely one of them just decided to be a lighting designer because they thought they new more than the professionals.

tamimio 3y ago
> Because part of cryptobro culture is thinking you know more than anyone else That’s basically the case with most if not all internet cultures.

gymbeaux 3y ago

It’s kind of a metaphor eh?