5 ms·

Low-plastic living. I read a book by the world's first zero-waste restaurant, Silo. The book got me thinking about how different our lives would be if oil were

Low-plastic living. I read a book by the world's first zero-waste restaurant, Silo. The book got me thinking about how different our lives would be if oil were expensive. "Pretend oil is really expensive" is a good proxy for doing things that are "eco-friendly." Since reading the book, I've tried to eliminate single-use plastic from most of my life. It's incredibly hard. Everything from my socks to my vegetable packaging to my dog's toys to my floor is made of plastic. I've slowly been adjusting my habits - such as checking whether clothing is natural or oil-based, buying food mostly at the farmers market, and eating in instead of takeaway. These little change have decreased my carbon footprint immensely. I enjoy playing this game of "pretend oil is expensive" even though it's not because it's revealing problems we will need to tackle as a society. At some point we will run out of oil. When that happens, everything will be impacted. Travel, food delivery, and most of all healthcare.

zx8080 3y ago
Does replacing plastics with paper packaging means that trees will be eliminates much more on scale?
- philip1209 3y ago
  Trees are renewable. The mass of a tree comes from the carbon it extracts from the air. [1] It's not a zero-sum, though. Why does my cilantro need to come in a plastic bag? At the farmer's market, it doesn't come packaged at all. [1] And, fire is basically reversing the process - releasing the sunlight that created the plant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1pIYI5JQLE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1pIYI5JQLE
  - OJFord 3y ago
    > Why does my cilantro need to come in a plastic bag? Everything here is hugely regional, but two answers spring to mind: 1) coriander is frequently sold in unpackaged bunches, typically larger than the packaged ones; 2) it's packaged in plastic because then it can be filled with some inert gas that prolongs spoiling, it's not completely obtuse. (In the UK for example Waitrose sells it growing reared in Sussex, or packaged grown idk Spain or Monaco or somewhere; Sainsbury's sells it similarly packaged or cut and bunched of undisclosed origin.)
    - philip1209 3y ago
      The big takeaway from the Silo book matched the motto of restaurant Noma - "Time and place" - to eat locally and seasonally. So much of the carbon footprint of food comes from not eating locally or seasonally. For example, getting an avocado toast in November here in NYC requires putting an avocado on a 747 and flying it around the world. And, yes - in places like the UK or Denmark or New York, that can mean that fresh foods in Winter are scarce - but that's where fermentation can be a fascinating area of exploration (and, a related passion of mine right now). I don't share this to create a sense of guilt or scarcity. We have oil now and can get coriander and avocados in the Winter. That means it can be from a position of fun (and privilege) that we can explore alternative ways to eat. But, our ancestors still ate without 747s. Constraints drive creativity - and exploring these areas of low-carbon eating now can drive innovation that helps us cope with with a more low-oil world.
      - dublinben 3y ago
        Eating local has a very small impact on the greenhouse gas emissions associated with food, because transportation makes up a small part (~10% on average) of the total. Most foods, avocados included, are sent via ship not airplane. The actual foods you choose to eat (e.g. more vegetables, less beef) has a significantly greater impact than where they are coming from.[0] [0] https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local
sotix 3y ago
I have been doing this for about 2 years now. Got a few glass mason jars that I fill up with items like rice and nuts from the bulk bin at the grocery store. Peanut butter and jelly both come in glass jars. I get just about everything else from a local farm share where the items are not packaged in anything. It’s nice not dealing with plastic with my food. I used to throw so much of it away. Now most of my food waste is compostable.
- philip1209 3y ago
  I do similar things. Just replacing plastic sandwich bags with reusable silicon ones has been a big win. Even at the farmer's market, I eliminated the last little plastic by bringing cotton vegetable bags. To be clear, I'm not puritanical about this. I still do takeout sometimes. And, I'm about to hop on some flights that will burn a ton of oil. (Ironically, one of those carbon-belching flights is to a dinner at Silo, which I'm looking forward to.) Two of my biggest realizations have been: 1. There are many low-hanging changes we can make to reduce plastic, such as going to a farmers market, replacing a one-time use sandwich bag with a reusable one, or skipping delivery food (which often has more plastic packaging than actual food). 2. Low-plastic is often synonymous with quality. My cotton jeans, leather bag, and metal water bottle are all more expensive - but they are higher quality, have lasted for years, and can often be repaired. For example, my leather was an expensive $400, but I've had it for 8 years and counting - and just had it restored to look shiny and new. (Put another way: Plastic lacks wabi-sabi beauty).
  - throwaway2037 3y ago
    My god, this section is full of self-congratulatory, delusional posts. Hop on a flight to go to dinner at Silo? That single flight it probably worth more than a decade of reducing plastic sandwich bags. My cotton jeans, leather bag, and metal water bottle are all more expensive - but they are higher quality, have lasted for years, and can often be repaired. You can probably buy jeans at Walmart for 10 USD. They will last for a decade.
    - smileysteve 3y ago
4death4 3y ago
If oil were expensive, plastic would probably still be used in all the places it is used today because it is lighter and a large percentage of oil goes into the transportation of goods. I actually don't have a problem with plastic, at least in theory. Oil exists in the ground. I don't see an issue with pumping it up, using it for a bit, and putting it back into the ground via a landfill. I take more of an issue with recycling where plastic is shipped overseas and makes its way into the waterways.
- jll29 3y ago
  > Oil exists in the ground. I don't see an issue with pumping it up, using it for a bit, and putting it back into the ground via a landfill. - The form it is put "back into the ground" isn't the same form it was "pumped up". - The landfill isn't the same location where we put it compared to where we sourced it (much deeper). I'm not an ecologist, but both these differences have complex consequences for earth and us.
throwaway2037 3y ago
Everything from my socks Are you socks synthetic fiber? I am surprised they are not cotton. One way to think about plastic: Is there a reasonable alternative? For most plastic (food) wraps, the answer is (sadly): no. They are the best option to reduce food spoilage and only take a couple of grams of oil to make them. Plastic bottles for drinks? Most of them can be avoided by reducing your consumption, or reusing old bottles.
- smileysteve 3y ago
  Patagonia has a great article on plastics - wool socks on a polyester core create a drastically better and longer lasting sock than 99% cotton or wool. https://www.patagonia.com/why-plastics/ https://www.patagonia.com/why-plastics/
  - tangjurine 3y ago
    Article linked doesn't have anything to do with socks?
beingfit 3y ago
> I've tried to eliminate single-use plastic from most of my life. It's incredibly hard. I’ve tried too, and I agree that it is very hard. I rarely buy packaged and ready-to-eat food products, which eliminates a lot of plastic. But still there’s so much plastic when buying grocery and produce. Buying grains or other items from loose bins means insects, lower quality and what not. I’m happier with the lower plastic though.
whydontwezz 3y ago
I never understood why we don't pump and incinerate all non-recyclable waste straight into a volcano and let the lava deal with it!
- dhfryvby 3y ago
  It could work with unmaned aerial blimps or other load bearing uav's. You would sort the waste and grind it down if necessary. They could hover high enough to not be affected by the rupture of the lava lakes. Unless there is an open caldera like in Nicaragua. Then you would just have to deal with the local communities spiritual beliefs, which would benefit from a financial incentive.
- vb6sp6 3y ago
  [dead]
afpx 3y ago
How do you find products that don't have a lot of plastic waste in their manufacturing and supply chain?

zx8080 3y ago

Does replacing plastics with paper packaging means that trees will be eliminates much more on scale?

philip1209 3y ago
Trees are renewable. The mass of a tree comes from the carbon it extracts from the air. [1] It's not a zero-sum, though. Why does my cilantro need to come in a plastic bag? At the farmer's market, it doesn't come packaged at all. [1] And, fire is basically reversing the process - releasing the sunlight that created the plant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1pIYI5JQLE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1pIYI5JQLE
- OJFord 3y ago
  > Why does my cilantro need to come in a plastic bag? Everything here is hugely regional, but two answers spring to mind: 1) coriander is frequently sold in unpackaged bunches, typically larger than the packaged ones; 2) it's packaged in plastic because then it can be filled with some inert gas that prolongs spoiling, it's not completely obtuse. (In the UK for example Waitrose sells it growing reared in Sussex, or packaged grown idk Spain or Monaco or somewhere; Sainsbury's sells it similarly packaged or cut and bunched of undisclosed origin.)
  - philip1209 3y ago
    The big takeaway from the Silo book matched the motto of restaurant Noma - "Time and place" - to eat locally and seasonally. So much of the carbon footprint of food comes from not eating locally or seasonally. For example, getting an avocado toast in November here in NYC requires putting an avocado on a 747 and flying it around the world. And, yes - in places like the UK or Denmark or New York, that can mean that fresh foods in Winter are scarce - but that's where fermentation can be a fascinating area of exploration (and, a related passion of mine right now). I don't share this to create a sense of guilt or scarcity. We have oil now and can get coriander and avocados in the Winter. That means it can be from a position of fun (and privilege) that we can explore alternative ways to eat. But, our ancestors still ate without 747s. Constraints drive creativity - and exploring these areas of low-carbon eating now can drive innovation that helps us cope with with a more low-oil world.
    - dublinben 3y ago
      Eating local has a very small impact on the greenhouse gas emissions associated with food, because transportation makes up a small part (~10% on average) of the total. Most foods, avocados included, are sent via ship not airplane. The actual foods you choose to eat (e.g. more vegetables, less beef) has a significantly greater impact than where they are coming from.[0] [0] https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local

sotix 3y ago

I have been doing this for about 2 years now. Got a few glass mason jars that I fill up with items like rice and nuts from the bulk bin at the grocery store. Peanut butter and jelly both come in glass jars. I get just about everything else from a local farm share where the items are not packaged in anything. It’s nice not dealing with plastic with my food. I used to throw so much of it away. Now most of my food waste is compostable.

philip1209 3y ago
I do similar things. Just replacing plastic sandwich bags with reusable silicon ones has been a big win. Even at the farmer's market, I eliminated the last little plastic by bringing cotton vegetable bags. To be clear, I'm not puritanical about this. I still do takeout sometimes. And, I'm about to hop on some flights that will burn a ton of oil. (Ironically, one of those carbon-belching flights is to a dinner at Silo, which I'm looking forward to.) Two of my biggest realizations have been: 1. There are many low-hanging changes we can make to reduce plastic, such as going to a farmers market, replacing a one-time use sandwich bag with a reusable one, or skipping delivery food (which often has more plastic packaging than actual food). 2. Low-plastic is often synonymous with quality. My cotton jeans, leather bag, and metal water bottle are all more expensive - but they are higher quality, have lasted for years, and can often be repaired. For example, my leather was an expensive $400, but I've had it for 8 years and counting - and just had it restored to look shiny and new. (Put another way: Plastic lacks wabi-sabi beauty).
- throwaway2037 3y ago
  My god, this section is full of self-congratulatory, delusional posts. Hop on a flight to go to dinner at Silo? That single flight it probably worth more than a decade of reducing plastic sandwich bags. My cotton jeans, leather bag, and metal water bottle are all more expensive - but they are higher quality, have lasted for years, and can often be repaired. You can probably buy jeans at Walmart for 10 USD. They will last for a decade.
  - smileysteve 3y ago

4death4 3y ago

If oil were expensive, plastic would probably still be used in all the places it is used today because it is lighter and a large percentage of oil goes into the transportation of goods. I actually don't have a problem with plastic, at least in theory. Oil exists in the ground. I don't see an issue with pumping it up, using it for a bit, and putting it back into the ground via a landfill. I take more of an issue with recycling where plastic is shipped overseas and makes its way into the waterways.

jll29 3y ago
> Oil exists in the ground. I don't see an issue with pumping it up, using it for a bit, and putting it back into the ground via a landfill. - The form it is put "back into the ground" isn't the same form it was "pumped up". - The landfill isn't the same location where we put it compared to where we sourced it (much deeper). I'm not an ecologist, but both these differences have complex consequences for earth and us.

throwaway2037 3y ago

Everything from my socks Are you socks synthetic fiber? I am surprised they are not cotton. One way to think about plastic: Is there a reasonable alternative? For most plastic (food) wraps, the answer is (sadly): no. They are the best option to reduce food spoilage and only take a couple of grams of oil to make them. Plastic bottles for drinks? Most of them can be avoided by reducing your consumption, or reusing old bottles.

smileysteve 3y ago
Patagonia has a great article on plastics - wool socks on a polyester core create a drastically better and longer lasting sock than 99% cotton or wool. https://www.patagonia.com/why-plastics/ https://www.patagonia.com/why-plastics/
- tangjurine 3y ago
  Article linked doesn't have anything to do with socks?

beingfit 3y ago

> I've tried to eliminate single-use plastic from most of my life. It's incredibly hard. I’ve tried too, and I agree that it is very hard. I rarely buy packaged and ready-to-eat food products, which eliminates a lot of plastic. But still there’s so much plastic when buying grocery and produce. Buying grains or other items from loose bins means insects, lower quality and what not. I’m happier with the lower plastic though.

whydontwezz 3y ago

I never understood why we don't pump and incinerate all non-recyclable waste straight into a volcano and let the lava deal with it!

dhfryvby 3y ago
It could work with unmaned aerial blimps or other load bearing uav's. You would sort the waste and grind it down if necessary. They could hover high enough to not be affected by the rupture of the lava lakes. Unless there is an open caldera like in Nicaragua. Then you would just have to deal with the local communities spiritual beliefs, which would benefit from a financial incentive.
vb6sp6 3y ago
[dead]

afpx 3y ago

How do you find products that don't have a lot of plastic waste in their manufacturing and supply chain?