5 ms·

The big underreported story here is how involved the Stanford Law School professor parents of SBF were and still are. They had the connections to VCs, they help

by gizmo 3y ago

The big underreported story here is how involved the Stanford Law School professor parents of SBF were and still are. They had the connections to VCs, they helped set up shell companies, they even picked the perfect FTX compliance officer: the crooked and disgraced lawyer Daniel Friedberg. And the parents were richly rewarded for their involvement.

CSMastermind 3y ago
It really seems like there's something deeply culturally wrong at Stanford. SBF, Elizabeth Holmes, Do Kwon, Stan Cohen, Marc Tessier-Lavigne, and more. They seem to produce or attract people for whom truth is an inconvenience and to whom the ends justify the means. Entitled people taught to "fake it til you make it" with some weird hyper-capitalistic/accelerationist philosophy. For whom a moral compass is only for the kids at state schools who don't have the right connections.
- baggy_trough 3y ago
  Nothing unique about Stanford, sadly.
  - jjtheblunt 3y ago
    examples? I don't know of any, but they sure could exist.
    - BigRedDog1669 3y ago
      the history of the world. This is just one specific example of corruption and 'fuck you i got mine' mentality.
  - BlackjackCF 3y ago
    Yeah, I think this might just be the case when you have rich and powerful people involved at historically rich and powerful institutions. Nepotism and all.
  - bmitc 3y ago
    While other institutions certainly carry their own quantity and form of hubris, Stanford does indeed seem unique in just how warped the hubris is of its members.
- snorkel 3y ago
  I don’t think it’s Ivy League schools to blame for this as much as VCs willingness to buy/sell BS and hype when it’s coming from an Ivy League grad.
  - hawk_ 3y ago
    Stanford is very famously not one of the Ivy League schools.
    - gumby 3y ago
      "famously"? What do you mean? If you're talking about FTX: MIT is also not an Ivy League school. The Ivy League is really just a sport league. Back when I was applying to colleges I read that Colgate was invited to join but when they declined Cornell was recruited instead. (but can't find anything about this on the web).
- nostrademons 3y ago
  You should probably read a biography of Leland Stanford. [1, among others] More generally, this is how the world works. Go look more deeply into how other great American heroes like Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, Lincoln, Vanderbilt, Rockefeller, Carnegie, Ford, Nobel, the Kennedy clan, LBJ, Fred Terman, David Packard, Bill Gates, Elon Musk et al operated. There's usually a pattern of failing upwards (usually at public expense) until they do the one thing that cements their legacy, and then doing their best to whitewash their deeds with philanthropy so everybody remembers them as a benefactor of universities rather than a cold-blooded murderer. People for whom the ends do not justify the means tended to meet untimely ends at the hands of those for which it does. [1] https://www.whatitmeanstobeamerican.org/journeys/was-leland-stanford-a-magnanimous-philanthropist-or-a-thief-liar-and-bigot/ https://www.whatitmeanstobeamerican.org/journeys/was-leland-...
  - chubot 3y ago
    I feel like this is being too charitable to SBF and Holmes :-P They were always going to fail -- they were always going to get caught -- it was just a matter of when. They were both stupid and short-sighted in a way that the others weren't. They weren't competent. There was no outcome where they went down in history as good, but were actually bad. --- I think most of the "fallen heroes" you list have done things competently -- sometimes amazingly competently -- but their behavior was terrible in some standout cases. To take Gates as an example, he started a company that arguably made the computing world worse off for a couple decades with anti-competitive tactics. He arguably "stole" a lot of money from his competitors. Microsoft treats a lot of their enterprise customers like shit (but that's not a crime). But I don't think Microsoft was at its core a fraudulent company (I personally avoid most of their products -- but then again I avoid a lot of software companies). It may have been bad, but at the end of the day there was and is an actual business there. It's qualitatively different than the frauds. (Also, Microsoft arguably "invented" the idea of selling software (without hardware), which unlocked a lot of value. They were very early to the game. And, the more we learn, there seems to be less and less light between Google in the last 10 years and Microsft in the 90's. I also don't consider Google fraudulent at its core, though it's been taken over by bad actors.) --- SBF is a lot closer to say Bernie Madoff. Madoff just took people's money and literally never invested it. He just had a computer program print up reports that showed 25% a year gains. He was running a confidence game. SBF was maybe a hair better than that, since I guess he did actually perform crypto trades lol. (But if he had Madoff's regulatory access, he probably wouldn't have) Either way, not much better. He sent the same kind of fabricated reports, and made up safeguards out of thin air, and he didn't produce anything positive to compensate for it. It was a pure loss for everyone!
- finite_depth 3y ago
  Stanford represents the intersection of the personal arrogance of Silicon Valley and the class arrogance of wealth and power. I'm not sure it's actually more evil than any other upper-class institution, but that evil manifests itself uniquely through extremely punchable human beings rather than through massive faceless investment firms. In the grand scheme of things, SBF almost certainly does less harm than a lot of defense contractors do, but SBF did it in a way that makes him, personally, the asshole (rather than just a blob of people following economic incentives).
- AniseAbyss 3y ago
  [dead]
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  I saw a stat that if you look at Forbes' "... Under 30" list, collectively, they have been accused/charged/convicted of stealing/scamming more money than their companies have generated revenue. And then I saw a tweet a while back, that I admittedly can no longer find, that if you filter for "Stanford" in that list, the ratio blows out to nearly 3:1 (ill-gotten gains:revenue).
e40 3y ago
This is what I've been wondering about all along. Has there been any move to prosecute them?
- pavlov 3y ago
  The FTX bankruptcy led by John Ray has sued SBF’s parents to recoup money and gifts paid by the company: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/crypto/ftx-sues-founder-sam-bankman-frieds-parents-rcna105826 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/crypto/ftx-sues-founder-sam-ban...
  - bmitc 3y ago
    That's them being sued, but they aren't being legally prosecuted as of yet, and they both still have their jobs as law professors at Stanford. I believe Barbara Fried is an emeritus professor now, but she should have the title revoked.
    - Order 3y ago
      Genuine question - do professors have to live ethical personal lives?
      - bmitc 3y ago
        I mean, they for sure have employment contracts that provide stipulations. What those are exactly, I don't know. It's currently not clear whether their involvement is illegal or not. It certainly seems that it was illegal. It just seems outright wrong that law professors, or any professor, can be part of, help orchestrate, benefit from, and support massive fraud and still keep their jobs. Not only is it wrong, it also just seems like a plain bad idea to have your students learning from such corrupt individuals.
      - alephnan 3y ago
        Do presidents of the United States have to live ethical personal lives?
randycupertino 3y ago
> how involved the Stanford Law School professor parents of SBF were and still are. My favorite SBF Dad anecdote is how his father was being paid $200k a year as a consultant for FTX but he wanted to be making $1million a year, so he CC'd SBF's mom when bringing it up. https://www.businessinsider.com/sam-bankman-frieds-ftx-1-million-pay-dad-mom-2023-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/sam-bankman-frieds-ftx-1-mil... > In the emails, per the lawsuit, Bankman told the company's US head of administration he was getting only $16,667 a month from the company when he was "supposed to be getting $1M/yr, starting in December," which "would be a bit more than $80,000 a month, gross." > He then apparently took his complaints to his son, who cofounded the company and was its CEO, writing in an email: "Gee, Sam I don't know what to say here. This is the first [I] have heard of the 200K a year salary! Putting Barbara on this." > FTX's lawyers then wrote: "In other words, Bankman lobbied his son to massively increase his own salary." > "Bankman's influence paid off, not only for him but for Fried too," the lawyers continued. > "Within two weeks, Bankman-Fried gifted Bankman and Fried together $10 million in funds originating from Alameda Ltd. > "Within three months, Bankman-Fried caused the couple to be deeded a $16.4 million property in The Bahamas paid for with funds ultimately provided by FTX Trading. Bankman and Fried enjoyed the benefits of more than $90,000 in expenses, paid for by FTX Trading, for their Bahamas residence." Give me a raise or I'll tell Mommy!

by gizmo 3y ago

CSMastermind 3y ago

It really seems like there's something deeply culturally wrong at Stanford. SBF, Elizabeth Holmes, Do Kwon, Stan Cohen, Marc Tessier-Lavigne, and more. They seem to produce or attract people for whom truth is an inconvenience and to whom the ends justify the means. Entitled people taught to "fake it til you make it" with some weird hyper-capitalistic/accelerationist philosophy. For whom a moral compass is only for the kids at state schools who don't have the right connections.

baggy_trough 3y ago
Nothing unique about Stanford, sadly.
- jjtheblunt 3y ago
  examples? I don't know of any, but they sure could exist.
  - BigRedDog1669 3y ago
    the history of the world. This is just one specific example of corruption and 'fuck you i got mine' mentality.
- BlackjackCF 3y ago
  Yeah, I think this might just be the case when you have rich and powerful people involved at historically rich and powerful institutions. Nepotism and all.
- bmitc 3y ago
  While other institutions certainly carry their own quantity and form of hubris, Stanford does indeed seem unique in just how warped the hubris is of its members.
snorkel 3y ago
I don’t think it’s Ivy League schools to blame for this as much as VCs willingness to buy/sell BS and hype when it’s coming from an Ivy League grad.
- hawk_ 3y ago
  Stanford is very famously not one of the Ivy League schools.
  - gumby 3y ago
    "famously"? What do you mean? If you're talking about FTX: MIT is also not an Ivy League school. The Ivy League is really just a sport league. Back when I was applying to colleges I read that Colgate was invited to join but when they declined Cornell was recruited instead. (but can't find anything about this on the web).
nostrademons 3y ago
You should probably read a biography of Leland Stanford. [1, among others] More generally, this is how the world works. Go look more deeply into how other great American heroes like Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, Lincoln, Vanderbilt, Rockefeller, Carnegie, Ford, Nobel, the Kennedy clan, LBJ, Fred Terman, David Packard, Bill Gates, Elon Musk et al operated. There's usually a pattern of failing upwards (usually at public expense) until they do the one thing that cements their legacy, and then doing their best to whitewash their deeds with philanthropy so everybody remembers them as a benefactor of universities rather than a cold-blooded murderer. People for whom the ends do not justify the means tended to meet untimely ends at the hands of those for which it does. [1] https://www.whatitmeanstobeamerican.org/journeys/was-leland-stanford-a-magnanimous-philanthropist-or-a-thief-liar-and-bigot/ https://www.whatitmeanstobeamerican.org/journeys/was-leland-...
- chubot 3y ago
  I feel like this is being too charitable to SBF and Holmes :-P They were always going to fail -- they were always going to get caught -- it was just a matter of when. They were both stupid and short-sighted in a way that the others weren't. They weren't competent. There was no outcome where they went down in history as good, but were actually bad. --- I think most of the "fallen heroes" you list have done things competently -- sometimes amazingly competently -- but their behavior was terrible in some standout cases. To take Gates as an example, he started a company that arguably made the computing world worse off for a couple decades with anti-competitive tactics. He arguably "stole" a lot of money from his competitors. Microsoft treats a lot of their enterprise customers like shit (but that's not a crime). But I don't think Microsoft was at its core a fraudulent company (I personally avoid most of their products -- but then again I avoid a lot of software companies). It may have been bad, but at the end of the day there was and is an actual business there. It's qualitatively different than the frauds. (Also, Microsoft arguably "invented" the idea of selling software (without hardware), which unlocked a lot of value. They were very early to the game. And, the more we learn, there seems to be less and less light between Google in the last 10 years and Microsft in the 90's. I also don't consider Google fraudulent at its core, though it's been taken over by bad actors.) --- SBF is a lot closer to say Bernie Madoff. Madoff just took people's money and literally never invested it. He just had a computer program print up reports that showed 25% a year gains. He was running a confidence game. SBF was maybe a hair better than that, since I guess he did actually perform crypto trades lol. (But if he had Madoff's regulatory access, he probably wouldn't have) Either way, not much better. He sent the same kind of fabricated reports, and made up safeguards out of thin air, and he didn't produce anything positive to compensate for it. It was a pure loss for everyone!
finite_depth 3y ago
Stanford represents the intersection of the personal arrogance of Silicon Valley and the class arrogance of wealth and power. I'm not sure it's actually more evil than any other upper-class institution, but that evil manifests itself uniquely through extremely punchable human beings rather than through massive faceless investment firms. In the grand scheme of things, SBF almost certainly does less harm than a lot of defense contractors do, but SBF did it in a way that makes him, personally, the asshole (rather than just a blob of people following economic incentives).
AniseAbyss 3y ago
[dead]
FireBeyond 3y ago
I saw a stat that if you look at Forbes' "... Under 30" list, collectively, they have been accused/charged/convicted of stealing/scamming more money than their companies have generated revenue. And then I saw a tweet a while back, that I admittedly can no longer find, that if you filter for "Stanford" in that list, the ratio blows out to nearly 3:1 (ill-gotten gains:revenue).

e40 3y ago

This is what I've been wondering about all along. Has there been any move to prosecute them?

pavlov 3y ago
The FTX bankruptcy led by John Ray has sued SBF’s parents to recoup money and gifts paid by the company: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/crypto/ftx-sues-founder-sam-bankman-frieds-parents-rcna105826 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/crypto/ftx-sues-founder-sam-ban...
- bmitc 3y ago
  That's them being sued, but they aren't being legally prosecuted as of yet, and they both still have their jobs as law professors at Stanford. I believe Barbara Fried is an emeritus professor now, but she should have the title revoked.
  - Order 3y ago
    Genuine question - do professors have to live ethical personal lives?
    - bmitc 3y ago
      I mean, they for sure have employment contracts that provide stipulations. What those are exactly, I don't know. It's currently not clear whether their involvement is illegal or not. It certainly seems that it was illegal. It just seems outright wrong that law professors, or any professor, can be part of, help orchestrate, benefit from, and support massive fraud and still keep their jobs. Not only is it wrong, it also just seems like a plain bad idea to have your students learning from such corrupt individuals.
    - alephnan 3y ago
      Do presidents of the United States have to live ethical personal lives?

randycupertino 3y ago

> how involved the Stanford Law School professor parents of SBF were and still are. My favorite SBF Dad anecdote is how his father was being paid $200k a year as a consultant for FTX but he wanted to be making $1million a year, so he CC'd SBF's mom when bringing it up. https://www.businessinsider.com/sam-bankman-frieds-ftx-1-million-pay-dad-mom-2023-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/sam-bankman-frieds-ftx-1-mil... > In the emails, per the lawsuit, Bankman told the company's US head of administration he was getting only $16,667 a month from the company when he was "supposed to be getting $1M/yr, starting in December," which "would be a bit more than $80,000 a month, gross." > He then apparently took his complaints to his son, who cofounded the company and was its CEO, writing in an email: "Gee, Sam I don't know what to say here. This is the first [I] have heard of the 200K a year salary! Putting Barbara on this." > FTX's lawyers then wrote: "In other words, Bankman lobbied his son to massively increase his own salary." > "Bankman's influence paid off, not only for him but for Fried too," the lawyers continued. > "Within two weeks, Bankman-Fried gifted Bankman and Fried together $10 million in funds originating from Alameda Ltd. > "Within three months, Bankman-Fried caused the couple to be deeded a $16.4 million property in The Bahamas paid for with funds ultimately provided by FTX Trading. Bankman and Fried enjoyed the benefits of more than $90,000 in expenses, paid for by FTX Trading, for their Bahamas residence." Give me a raise or I'll tell Mommy!